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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: Please provide feedback
Subject description: so we can improve in the future
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electro-music 2006 is now history. What a great experience it was. Before the afterglow wears of, it would be good to get feedback to make the experience better. Mike already started an excellent topic with feedback about the sound systems we were using. How about posting feedback on anything else that we should consider.

We are considering all things to be open - the format, the venue, the duration, the time of year - everything - even the continent. Please, lets hear your thoughts.

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deknow



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

1. Video: The video work this year was top notch. IMHO, we need to accomodate this in two ways. First, there needs to be at least a monitor facing the performers (even a small tv)...when things are "on" between video and music, there can be a great 2 way communication as the video and music inform each other. as we had things setup, the video was listening to the music, but it was very difficult (or impossible) for the performer to see the video, or even appreciate how complimentary the video was to the music. Second, we should add video recording to the setup...most of the musicians don't always have the oppurtunity to perform with such great video, and being able to have a recording would (i think) be a big plus for those performing.

2. Sound: As mentioned before, sub woofers would be a welcome addition....my own music (and i think that of most of the organizers) does not _require_ subs, and i think it's easy for us to forget that for some subs are almost essential. At least in the gallery, we did have some problems with people overloading the board (even after soundchecking)...much of this should have been avoided by the performers, but adding a compressor and/or limiter before the board would be helpful, and allow us to have better quality recordings (i had one with me, but it never got setup). We should also have a better way to organize what the "standard" sound setup will be in the gallery and to have someone in charge "officially" so that if someone wants to make a change for their specific set that there is a process to determine if it is appropriate or not....i was nominally doing sound in the gallery, and some of the changes made over the 3 days made no sense and were even detrimental to the sound in general....if a performer wants a setup that deviates from the standard, returning things to their original positions and settings should be part of "breaking down" by the performer.

3. Talks: Some of the talks were facinating...they should be recorded with video so they can be part of what is available on electro-music.com.

4. i know that some backing tracks are important for some performances (even some that i was involved in)...but we need to do something to encourage as much "live" as possible (imho). i'm not terribly interested in watching someone play along with material that has largely been prerecorded...and i feel duped when i learn how little "live" some of the performances are. the days of electronic music concerts being a tape recorder on stage are by now far behind us...and i say good riddance...i'll take live flaws over prerecoded perfection any day. "live music is better, bumper stickers should be issued"

5. concert etiquette: there should be no flash pictures durring performances, and folks should refrain from talking (especially durring the more spacy mindtrip stuff).

that's all off the top of my (still spinning) head...i'm sure i'll come up with more Smile ...all these criticisms are secondary to the wonderful time i had with all of you...neither ramona nor i can wait for next year!

deknow
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mtvic



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More Kuit
HA HA
I was talking with Pat CAS Curator yesterday .
I stopped by on my drive home from work to see if anyone was still lingering.Pat said Howard had left just ahalf hour before I got there
dratts. We talked about the event and how well it went.
She said the possibility of Holland next year.
Well with a little saving I'm there!
England would be nice too as I have loads of relatives there.
As for sound , a permenant sound system for the jams would help them
persist and anyone could jam at any time without waiting for someone showing up with one.
Ed "ace paradise' Acedo saved the jam sessions with his Crown amp and
Kenwood speakers. Thank you Ace .
More then 3 days too lets make it a week next year

Last edited by mtvic on Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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dmosc



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

to be honest, I found the use of video to be a little draining. After several days of video clips, I honestly preferred to close my eyes for a great deal of the performances. Nothing against the video ppl, but I think the 1 for 1 connection between every performance with some sort of video is not a good thing. Clearly some groups like orbital decay and project rurouri (sp, sorry) made nice use of video and I enjoyed those and I'm sure the occasional use of ambient video would be nice. Personally however, I find ambient video as the rule instead of the exception to be... flakey and distracting
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vostek



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes....thats the thing with video...you got to be real careful with it. It can easily distract from the music instead of complimenting it. especially with the ambient stuff, less is more. Video art is still in its infancy compared to audio, so i think i speak for all video artists when i say there is still a lot to learn as far as color theory, effects, depth, and motion, let alone trying to wrestle with the technology to get something that enables dynamic expression.

video recording would be awesome, as i can't tell you how many times i've performed with no artifact to show for it. It just lives on in peoples minds.

I agree about refraining from talking. Admittedly i talked quite a bit during Orbital Decay's set, and while it was in reference to the experience, the music was quiet enough for it to disturb at least 1 other person's experience.

Also, the 'live' aspect is pretty critical if we want to gain more respect and acknowledgment from the traditional music community at large. This event has taught me to focus more on live expression with music.
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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Deknow has great suggestions and I second them.
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deknow



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

video _can_ distract from the music...but as far as i'm aware, no performer had video projected against their own wishes.

video performers _might_ want to take the recording aspect into their own hands (i'm speaking generally, not just at em events)....i often use a small dv camera as a vcr to record from the video deck and the audio board together...but no one is better qualified to do this than the video performer him/herself. some considerations (distance between video setup and soundboard, balanced line for long cable runs, etc) are necessary, and i do hope that we can make this part of the installation for em 07 ...but we will need people to volunteer time and equipment to make this work.

i'm not that concerned about "gaining respect from traditional music community"...if i wanted that, i would be playing traditional music. i care much more about our own "internal integrity"...when the "headliners" are playing to backing tracks _and_ have a decptive ammount of gear on stage it starts to remind me of some of the "lip sync" performances i've seen by the "rave poser bands"...i think it jades all of us, and takes away from some of the reasons for going to hear live music....i can always hook up the mackie's to a cd player at home.

one other thing i'll add is that we should find some mechanism to encourage more performers to come for more than just the day they are playing....we are also the audience, and the more we all hear from each other, the tighter and stronger the community will be.

deknow
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egw



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Attendance was good, and more importantly very enthusiastic, but I think we can do better with more publicity. I hope people will give us some suggestions about how to improve that.

I think that naturally this event will grow as long as attendees think it is a positive experience. The word will spread, and we rely on the community to help with that.

What is the proper balance between an event that is mostly for the artists, and one that targets a general audience? We can't really grow very much in terms of the number of performing artists and speakers - we had a full 3 day schedule with no gaps at all. To allow for more we would have to shorten the sets or have more simultaneous events. I don't want to shorten the sets. 25 minutes was the minimum, and groups of two or more generally got 40 minutes. That's long enough to get your message across, and if someone doesn't like the music they don't have to wait too long for the next thing. If we have simultaneous events, the audiences will be smaller, and events that coincide with something popular will have hardly any attendance. That problem is less critical if we can attract more people. Yet most of our attendance is the artists and their friends and family.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could pay the performers instead of asking them to buy tickets? That requires getting more non-performers to come out for the event. If we double the number of attendees, we can cover the cost of tickets for artists. Do we want to go down the path of more conventional festivals - trying to feature "name" artists who might sell more tickets, but who need to be paid. Then we need to start buying advertising, hiring sound engineers, renting PA and video equipment. All this in turn requires selling more tickets or raising the price just to break even. How far can we go down this path without compromising the quality of the event - the sense of community, comraderie, participation, collaboration, and party atmosphere?

I'm sure most of us know that it's not easy to attract an audience for music that is not mainstream. I believe it's possible, at least to a modest degree. Maybe we just need to continue down the path we've started, and have some patience. I would like to hear other's thoughts.
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egw



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think that video is a plus for almost any of the music, the exception being when the musician is doing something fascinating to watch. Certainly we only use video when the performer requests it. And as others have said, video art is an emerging form and we have a lot to learn about how to achieve better synergy with the music. Events like this are a great opportunity to further that synergy and experiment with combining different styles of video and music. I would encourage more of this rather than less, as I'm interested in advancing the art as much as putting on a good show for the audience.

Recording the video is definitely in the cards for the future. I've already been playing with this at home and DVD recorders are inexpensive now.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree completely about trying to encourage artists to attend for the whole event and not just their own set. This has been our intent all along but I'm not sure how to enforce it. Some people just can't make it for all three days and I don't necessarily want to rule them out. And it seems harsh to make people buy tickets for all three days if they can only attend for one or two (although some artists did that and we greatly appreciate it!)
But after two years we have a pretty good idea who the most enthusiastic and reliable participants are and we'll give them priority for the next event.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
... there needs to be at least a monitor facing the performers (even a small tv)...when things are "on" between video and music, there can be a great 2 way communication as the video and music inform each other. as we had things setup, the video was listening to the music, but it was very difficult (or impossible) for the performer to see the video, or even appreciate how complimentary the video was to the music.
deknow


Seems like a good idea and worth trying if we can get the equipment.
We tried this one year at Different Skies. Turns out that most of the musicians were so focussed on what they were doing that they never looked at the monitor!
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synthblock



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
one other thing i'll add is that we should find some mechanism to encourage more performers to come for more than just the day they are playing....we are also the audience, and the more we all hear from each other, the tighter and stronger the community will be.
deknow


No encouragement needed for some of us Wink. I, for one, wanted to be there for all three days, but due to family commitments was unable to. It was a tough ride home on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

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deknow



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i bought a cheap ($200) refurbished mini dv camera that i often use to record with doctor t. tapes are cheap enough, and somehow i don't like the idea of recording directly to dvd disc (if there is a power problem before stop is pressed the data may be hard to recover). of course, if we are really recording "for keeps" and seriously, there will be more than one recorder going at a time (ditto for the audio recording). after our experiences this weekeind, a full set of di box, 50' xlr's, and transformer adaptors back to unbalanced is going to be added to my carry around rig, so that good sound can go to the camera for recording.

using a live camera in the video mix is great (it makes it clear to someone watching a dvd of the mix from the board that there is a band playing, and it's not just a prerecorded soundtrack), and hong's use of this was beautiful....this requires someone good to be running the live camera on the other end (it just doesn't work with fixed cameras or amature shooting...if we had a few gregs we would be in good shape). for the next event there should be a list of voluteers to shoot live...i'm sure we have a few good videographers among us (and i'm sure they own gear!). i know from past experience that doctor t is pretty picky about who runs the camera, so we didn't try it this year in the gallery.

you are correct that the video monitors will often be ignored, but they should be there.

deknow
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deknow



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

please, i'm not being critical of individuals that weren't there for 3 days...i'm glad everyone was there when they could be.

i heard a little bit of almost everything, and all of almost nothing. i can't say i loved everything i heard, but i loved hearing everything! this would be a very boring community if it had a "sound"....i have much more to learn from and share with those that are differant from me!

deknow
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dmosc



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I enjoy visual art and I definately support it's use at EM06/future but I feel strongly that this year we fell into the trap of simply always having something on the screen. It became nearly a requirement and a sort of crutch. The usual exchange when "do you mind if we run some visuals on the projectors?" Sure the artist could order the projectors off but I can't think of one example in which that happened. The default was thet they were on. You know, we wouldn't ask any performer to stay creative and focused for hours on end 3 days in a row, I don't know why we ask the video artists to do this.

My experience at EM06 was that roughly 20% of the video art was really well done and I enjoyed it, 50% was ok and didn't bother me, and 30% was really quite distracting to the point where my experience improved from closing my eyes. Often times I wanted to just look the the performer, let my eyes wander over the array of gear in the room, or simply not be destracted by flickering lights in a situation when they were out of tone with the music.

It's very difficult for a visual artist to "play along" with something on stage that they likely have never heard before. You wouldn't ask a guitar player to come on stage with every single act and play along would you? I'm sure they'd accidentially play in a few wrong places or be caught off guard by a chord/style/rhythm change. After all, a lot of EM06 was new and experimental stuff! I feel in a sense it is a sign of respect for the visual artists to not simply default to throwing something togeather for each act. Like all art, if often benefits from knowledge of the surroundings, preparation, and planning.

Overall, I think the video art was an enriching part of the experience at EM06 but an overused medium. Then again, I think anybody who went to EM06 and liked even only half of the stuff there was already a very open minded person to being with Smile All of the EM06 visual artists were great.
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sounds_of_impermanence



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mtvic wrote:

She said the possibility of Holland next year.


the netherlands are amazing--was in gronigen/amsterdam two months ago--but I just think we have the perfect venue--why change?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My hope would be that we can do em2007 in Philly again in the spring and then have another event in the Netherlands in the fall. We have to give it some thought. There is quite a bit of interest from people in Europe who couldn't make the trip here.
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utenzil



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with most of what deknow said (see below). I like the visuals plus music, I also agree sometimes you feel you have to close your eyes.

It was hot in the large gallery early in the evening. It was perfect later on, though.

The point about coordination, a'la stage management, it would've helped if someone would've said 'you will have x minutes alone in here to set up, x to tear down. You can leave your stuff set up, don't worry, it won't get stolen. Don't play through your speakers till your ready, use phones to check your signal. There will be someone there to hook you into the board and run sound, don't worry about plugging into the mains.

So, the protocol is not immediately clear. Down here (MD/DC/NoVA area) we've charged $5 to see 8 electronic acts play continuously, one sets up while one plays while one tears down, you crawl around on the stage under tables, sliding the rig up onto the table like a commando placing a charge while a video projector strafes you Smile.

(edited to correct some spelling and to add...)

My set was much different than what I often do as a result of having more time to set up, but even so I wished I had known how much time I'd have in order to set up and double check things, because some stuff didn't work.

I like when people give some background on what they're about to do, the backing tracks/live thing-- I think as long as someone says that heir technique involves that, then that's cool.

And Smile I'm critical of myself for only coming on one day, but my situation was similar, friday and saturday were not available.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd like to add my take on some of these topics if I could.

As a non-performer / musician...

I came to learn, listen, look and in a sense lurk in person.
I love the genre, and have been a fan of much of its music since the 60's.
The music at this event was diverse, very enjoyable, and it seemed to me, well played. The people there were mostly very accepting, polite, and instructional / welcoming. The video artistry was unexpected, and wonderful.

That being said, I have the following to offer...

1.) The video art did begin to be more of the same as has been said. As these two art forms are still in courtship (at least at EM events) the dance steps may well be tentative as the two spirits find their places / rhythms.
I remember when I was young, I made a wonderful wooden box which contained of all things christmas tree lights connected to a circuit which triggered some or others depending the music being played. These were called "color organs" if I remember correctly. they were a cheap man's light show in a teenager's personal stage. Would it be possible for a similar circuit to be used to trigger some of the video events / fades / vignettes as programmable band pass event trigger / detectors? Not all such occurences would need be from this circuit, but some could be, which would possibly allow for more apparent music / video synchronization without the requirement for pre-arrangement or the elimination of the artisan's touch at the video instrument. How about a MIDI thru tap to pick up event timings in a similar way? Just a thought or two.

I do agree that the over use of any thing in a seeming repetitive or similar fashion under similar circumstances within a short period of time tends to color it with the spirit of cliche. Even the sun in all its brilliance is taken for granted in the light of day. Solar flares or eclipses however...

To me, music is not about the cords, or notes...but about the interplay and the CHANGES. Visual art is much the same. A new thing repeated is not. New song, new dance.

2.) In order to encourage more widespread attendance by non-performers, advertising is crucial. Many media outlets offer such advertising free as a community service. T.V. stations, radio stations, other groups of artists and their benefactors could be tapped as resources for such ads / notifications. WXPN in Philly would be one such possible avenue I would think. As any thing which lives and grows, getting bigger means shedding of skin or the replacement of clothes. That is, bigger digs, more of everything that goes into making it happen, and a lot of food (money). Not all growth is good growth, and too much too fast is in some instances dangerous to the life of the organism itself. There was a wonderful sense of community at this event. That is a precious thing. Maintaining it under growth could be difficult, and possibly unrewarding for those at the heart of it. The Philadelphia Folksong Society has had some experience in this, and may well be a resource for "lessons learned".

Also, some seminars on the "basics" or "fundamentals" of synthesis, or electronic sound generation might not be a bad thing. I met some performers whose music I thoroughly enjoyed, who would possibly benefit from such symposia, as would the neophyte whom you wish to attract or nourish toward full fledged "performer" status. Many people who were raffle winners were in wonderment as to what to do with the circuit board that was one of the prizes. Why not a short seminar on what they are, and what to do with them? Maybe a copy of the relevant web page describing its operation and assembly could go with it. How many people at the event didn't really know what a VCO was and what CV's are? Granted, many of the "old hats" and engineers in the crowd might find these things boring or even too elementary for consideration, but I would wager that more of us might just learn a thing or two. I would have loved to See Terry up on a stage patching some old synth, telling me WHY he was running that particular signal to its inevitable esoteric destination and being able to hear the result! Or to see Howard give a talk on the design considerations for digital control of analog circuits, or even how sequencers work or are designed. As it has been said, give a man a fish and he will eat...teach him to fish...
There is no doubt that there were at this gathering, many accomplished players with a lot of the good toys. you displayed most expertly "what" they can do. I would have loved more "how".
How about it folks, is there a secrecy code among electronic musicians like the the magicians have? Hmmm? LOL.

3.) To keep performers at the venue beyond or in addition to their allotted day would be beneficial, particularly as you court more of non-members of the community. Maybe a discount for performers who do so would help.
Or an MVP award for the most instructive ( voted on by secret ballot), or an equipment raffle for the ones who stay the course. Get one of the manufacturers to donate a new piece of equipment for the raffle, and advertise the hell out of it! Who knows, might even get one or two "regular" musicians showing up for the right kind of honey. Many of the performers at this event DID stay for the "duration". Many of them were extremely helpful to me, educational for me, and as such are in my gratitude. I would name them, but I am afraid of forgetting one, and inadvertently committing the omissive sin. Let me just say thank you to all of you. After this experience, I have confirmed my "wanna be" status. You have shown me, at least in part, what I wanna be. Well done.

4.) Sometimes, the pace of having a "thing" happening on the schedule at all times, meant that to attend to being a a human, I had to miss out on something. In many ways we are still all like children. Elementary schools allow for some "play time" during their day to let kids be kids.
Maybe a break for a "coffee social" or a swap meet for used gear, or even an "open mentor hour" when the accomplished could flight train a fledgling just a little. I had to make choices constantly, regarding what I had to MISS, more that what I would attend. With that said I also know that putting this together was no small undertaking, and it was beautifully executed. A well engineered machine.

5.) Regarding the monitoring of video that is being displayed behind the artist during the performance I would suggest a simple "rear view mirror" as used in automobiles, (turned upside down, with a weighted base, or mounted on a spare "boom mike" stand). We are used to checking behind us in our scan pattern when driving by looking at the mirror. Maybe it would be more natural for the performer to "check six" (look behind them) with this approach if they so desired. Low tech i know, but an idea.

I have gone on too long I fear. I will end this now by saying to all of you, Thank You. Bang for buck this was an explosive bargain. The event was a testament to a wonderful community. Corny, cliche-ish, but you are all "Wonderers" to me.

Dan Gray
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Regarding video.

Another avenue of video / music / art interaction or recording might be to inform or open the door to a local community college, or art institute / school. Many of them could have budding artists with a new or different approach, and might have some useful equipment that could come along with them for the ride. Want the art forms to dance? Do like they do in Junior high school. Call another schools kids in for a little new blood interaction. How about feeding one of the animation schools a track or two, and have a contest for the best short animated music video. Then, screen the winner and the runner up with a LIVE performance of the song by the musician / band. New blood, cross pollination of breeding stock. Maybe even wicked cool result. Collaborative pre-show multimedia partnerships such as the amazing piece given us by Orbital Decay (without collaboration mind you) could have benefits.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great ideas - thanks Danno!
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rbedgar



Joined: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Feedback
Subject description: briefly
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...I thought I'd already sent in some comments, but I don't see 'em now...I probably spellchecked but didn't submit...

So briefly,

1. I enjoyed the video, but would have liked to see it separate from the music. Each has its own rhythms and motions, and together without practice they can counter each other...unintentionally.
2. A bit more of a key light for the performer(s) would be nice, if the performer doesn't mind.
3. I want to say that I had all the time I needed to set up, and that the monitors worked perfectly for me, as did the help getting the mix right. This was huge for my stuff, and I very much appreciate the timing that supported that being available.
4. While I couldn't stay for the last day, this wasn't out of not wanting to...but it takes a day to get back to California, and I had to be at work early Monday. I was able to hear the latter performances through the streaming, however, which provided a clear and well-mixed signal for my ears.
5. I'll see if I can set up to stream some concerts from San Francisco through electro-music in this next year. We have some wonderful music here which I imagine many EM'ers would like, and I also imagine the musicians here would love the added knowledable audience.
-Robert

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The present day composer refuses to sleep...
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mtvic



Joined: Feb 03, 2003
Posts: 488
Location: Quakertown,PA
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:35 am    Post subject: Concert series throughout the year Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not to be off topic .
Greg and I were talking outside with someone that I don't recall about the different venues and outlets for electronic music in the area.There is the GTMBA,Feedback series,PEMAF,Cosmic Coffeehouse,
in the local Philadelphia area. Greg also stated that there is a Gallery in the Stroudsburg area.
I think that there are enough electro-music members in the local area to organize something other.Maybe electro-music Concert series That area artists could organize.Similar to Gregs Pandemonium Symposium.
A quarterly concert series that showcases area performers as the above outlets do.
I know organising such a series would be a big task,but if we can pull off such a great event once yearly why not something similar quarterly or even monthly.We would sell tickets and use the money to finance electro-musics' yearly event where ever it may be.
Responses welcomed.

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Meteor 3



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Philadelphia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With regards to video and sound I have to agree with Howard. . .

There's plenty of research to back this up, when video is added to an audio stream, the mind shifts and the attention goes to the visual mostly .. . . .

I loved all the video at EM06, esp DR T, but I think to add them together at every chance takes away from both art forms .. .

I'd like to see some of Dr T and others' video WITHOUT AUDIO also! This way I could really experience the visual music without aural rhythms steering me elsewhere . ..
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mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Meteor 3

I suspect I met you at the event, but Meteor 3 doesn't ring a bell... Very Happy

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my music and other stuff
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