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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
G2X and moogerfooger Low Pass Filter
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funtykigs



Joined: Feb 09, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
funtykigs wrote:
could the silent way AC encoder be used to get CV out of the G2 audio outputs without any internal modification?

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/index_files/Silent-Way-AC-Encoder-video.php


i could.. but the question is how much voltage it can create.. a one diode solution is not very efficiant..


it seems other people are thinking about the same problem..

suitandtieguy on muffwiggler wrote:
so there has been some discussion privately of an STG Soundlabs utility module to help Volta and Silent Way users better integrate the computer into their modular systems.

it started out as merely an 8-channel voltage doubler to allow users maximum modulation from their audio interfaces, and once Os added the AC encoding, we decided to add support for that as well, and even add jumpers to double the gain _again_ (4X gain) and rebias the signal down 10 volts or so to allow for bipolar modulation from Silent Way with an AC-coupled interface.


http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/post-210936.html&highlight=#210936
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funtykigs



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh and 3phase do you have a schematic or photo of your CV mods?
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funtykigs wrote:
oh and 3phase do you have a schematic or photo of your CV mods?


no.. its a bit dangerous to get the output caps out.. i dont recomend it if you are not experianced with smd and skilled enogh to repair a hairthin trace if you accidently rub it appart..

however a cool mod...

but..

the ac to dc coupling might work for a limited oct range aswell..

however.. i just realized that with dc coupling it should be possible to have 2 voltages over one port easily..one positive..and one negative..

so for synth with negativ gating gate and cv could be ssend over one channel..

of filter cv could be aplied as negativ cv when the filter is up..
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funtykigs



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not so interested in accurate pitch tracking out of the G2 as much as complex modulation and triggers/gates etc... I'm going to give the AC/DC thing a try (KERRANG) I think.

And no I'm not experienced with smd stuff either which is why I prefer an external solution, and so I don't limit the possible resale value one day...
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funtykigs



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As soon as I get some time I'm going to try this circuit with the G2:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/post-211576.html#211576

Quote:
I tested this with my Mobile I/O 2882 interface. In +4dB mode this outputs ±8V anyway to I put it into -10dB mode, which gives just over 2V output with the passive rectifier circuit. Using the active circuit I got a nice ±5V or 0-10V, and it was rock solid driving ASys and Doepfer VCOs. Calibration with Silent Way covered the full (audible) range of the oscillators.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please let us know how it goes.

A logical thing is to combine the PWM with the AM circuits. Then you could get to CVs on one output.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Please let us know how it goes.

A logical thing is to combine the PWM with the AM circuits. Then you could get to CVs on one output.


but wouldnt the pwm interact with the am ?with a dc coupled output it would be easy again.. appling the pw only to the negativ half wave and the am to the positive you can split the signals with diodes afterwards..

i wonder if there are any old fashioned modem reciver chips that can be abused just to mimic a modem circuit with single components is way to much external circuitry to be economic
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
mosc wrote:
Please let us know how it goes.

A logical thing is to combine the PWM with the AM circuits. Then you could get to CVs on one output.


but wouldnt the pwm interact with the am ?


I don't think so. The PWM decoder just needs zero-crossings. The amplitude isn't all that important. It's ignored, actually.

The problem with modem chips is that you need to build a patch for one in the G2. That would take a lot of G2 resources, if it could be done at all.

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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not even a newbie at electronics, so excuse if what I'm going to say is absolutely absurd or off topic.

Maybe this device will allow our G2s to finally output CV signals from the audio outputs? I'd gladly sacrifice two of my outputs for audio rate CV modulation to be used with external gear. I'm starting to build my first modules, yay!!

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2010/05/31/audiocv-interface/

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Maybe this device will allow our G2s to finally output CV signals from the audio outputs?


That's the idea, yup!

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varice



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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: An Update
Subject description: Mod to the moogerfooger to fix the hi freq roll-off
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varice wrote:
varice wrote:
xav wrote:
I tried the mooger fooger yesterday and noticed a different sound than the g2, even when the mooger fooger is bypassed, unfortunately (less high frequencies).
But I was impressed by the G2 classic filter that's not ridiculous at all. Self modulation sounds really better on the mooger fooger (imho), especially in high frequencies.


Yes, the moogerfooger does not have a true bypass, the audio still goes through the drive circuit. Something to be aware of if you want use it in the conventional way. But, by the way that I use it in an external loop, the filter is only in the loop when I want to use it.

I had not noticed any loss of high frequencies when bypassed (normally I have the filter on all the time), something I will check.

There are interesting differences between the Moog and G2 Classic filters, especially at or near self oscillation resonance settings. But at lower settings, since I have had the moogerfooger for a while as a reference, I have learned how to patch the classic to sound closer to the Moog. Similar to the Moog, the classic will get a little more distorted as you drive it harder. And it seems to help to add a little saturation distortion before the classic input if you trying to get that nice and creamy Moog filter overdrive sound. Though, with a higher overdrive, the moogerfooger sound wins hands down!


xav,

Yes, you are very correct, there is a slight but very noticeable roll off of high frequency response with the MF-101 - even with the bypass on or with the filter opened up all the way. I had not noticed this before. I contacted Moog Music, and they suggested a modification. I have not tried their mod yet, but my own trials resulted in that I could add some "pre-emphasis" in the G2 output before the MF-101 to compensate... using an EQPeak module set to a freq of 16K, BW of 1 octave, gain of about +3dB... but my tests were using a primitive spectrum analyzer in a consumer GEQ and my bad ears... (I really do need a good spectrum analyzer...)

An update: When I checked out the modification suggested by Moog tech support back then, it turned out that the problem as not where they suggested (a single pole 6dB/octave high freq filter in the audio input buffer/driver circuit with a calculated corner frequency of 33kHz, far too high to cause the audible high freq roll-off).

I recently decided to troubleshoot this undesirable high frequency roll-off and found that there is another single pole 6dB/octave high freq filter before the audio output buffer. Making a simple modification restored the high frequency response of the MF-101. The modification details are here:

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11404

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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lately I've been thinking of buying a Moog Slim Phatty. It should work very well with the G2, and I suppose it can also be used only as a filter like in your mod.
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varice



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, the Phatty has external inputs for audio and CV, so it could be used this way. You would have the option of mixing the Phatty’s sound sources with the G2’s before the filter, and the option to use the G2 for CV control (with a G2 DC output modification, of course) or just use the Phatty’s EG and modulation for the filter. Then the audio output of the Phatty could be connected to a G2 input for more processing/FX treatment. It should work like a charm!

I’ve been SO TEMPTED to get a Voyager RME, but my G2X/moogerfooger monster has satisfied my Moog synth cravings, at least so far… Laughing

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
dorremifasol wrote:
Maybe this device will allow our G2s to finally output CV signals from the audio outputs?


That's the idea, yup!


Anyone know how the silent way software makes use of this? Does it use pcm or something?
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varice



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Blue Hell wrote:
dorremifasol wrote:
Maybe this device will allow our G2s to finally output CV signals from the audio outputs?


That's the idea, yup!


Anyone know how the silent way software makes use of this? Does it use pcm or something?

It appears that the AC Encoder software simply uses amplitude modulation of an audio frequency signal based on the fact that they suggest a simple decoder can be made with a single diode and capacitor. It would be easy to patch such an AM encoder in the G2.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the info.

I would be very interested to hear of anyone getting this going.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe a stupid question, and since this is an old topic, it may have already been addressed.

Since the G2 only has 4 precious audio outputs, why use them for CVs? Why not use a MIDI to CV converter?

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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Audio rate or smooth modulation, I suppose.
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varice



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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:22 am    Post subject: WTF! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, and since this is an old topic, it may have already been addressed.

Since the G2 only has 4 precious audio outputs, why use them for CVs? Why not use a MIDI to CV converter?

shaking mad, short circuit shaking scratch

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varice



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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Audio rate or smooth modulation, I suppose.


+1 thumright

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3phase



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the timing precission of the midi out modules of the G2 is not very good. and the cv outputs allow a lot of stuff mike modulatable keyboard scaling no midi/cv interface is doing..
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klangumsetzer



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i had the cv output mod done on my little phatty so i basically use the lp as midi2cv converter or trigger the g2 via midi while sending up to four cv to my moogerfooger setup.

enough options for me to get confused... Wink


best regards

eike
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finally I got a Slim Phatty (my first Moog!) and I must say that I'm really satisfied with the G2 - SP combo and the way how they can interact with each other. Wonderful sound and possibilities!

I still can't believe the G2 is not being produced anymore. There must be a bug in The Matrix...

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grimley



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Albert,
Did you mod your G2? I'd be really interested to hear if anyone got the Silent Way working with the G2.
-grimley

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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No I didn't, and I don't plan to do it either... G2 synths are too scarce to risk my own with my almost-null electronic abilities. At the moment I'm using only MIDI.

Still, the possibilities with MIDI only and the G2 are awesome, as you can control almost any parameter of the Phatty via Control Change messages from the G2.

Silent Way, maybe in the future. First I need a modular synth!

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