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Preview Sample of the Thomas Henry SN76477 Voice
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Preview Sample of the Thomas Henry SN76477 Voice Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thomas Henry SN76477 Based SN-Voice Module

I don't have a page up for it yet, but here's an electro-music exclusive on what this is all about (this is the first time the circuit has been discussed anywhere publicly).

To put it in a nutshell, Thomas has unchained the SN76477 by applying V/Oct control to the SN76477. This is a thing that the SN76477 was not designed for, and I have never seen a design that's ever gone there - everything I've seen uses the not-that-great linear control that is built into the SN76477. It can track up to five octaves from a keyboard fairly well. Even above that (where it tends to go flat) this still works very well for sequencer, joystick, touch strip, whatever - it's still much better than the linear control one always finds with SN76477 designs. This was not an easy feat, BTW. We went through several revs on this one. My breadboard runneth over Very Happy .

Of course, that's not the only thing that makes this such a cool circuit - here's a quick laundry list of what we're talking about here:

VCO
V/Oct input, expo modulation input & control, linear modlation input with AC/DC coupling switch and control, selectable square/PWM or VC Noise output that can either be constant or put under control of the SN76477 EG. Plus, there's an extra continuous triangle wave ouput. Square wave output can be selected between square, PWM controlled by LFO or PWM controlled by EG.

VC Digital Noise
Tom has applied a modified version of an extraordinary clock circuit he developed for his as-yet-unveiled super-enhanced SuperController (which, ironically, no longer uses the SN76477) to drive the VC Digital Noise Generator. This is an expo control, and allows one to use a keyboard to control it. There is, in addition to the keyboard input, an expo FM input with control. There is also a manual control for the built in noise filter of the SN76477.

EG
Input is a 5V gate. It's an ASR type (attack, sustain release), IE, it rises to the max level at the rate set by the attack pot, holds as long as the gate is held, then releases at the rate of the decay pot setting. The EG controls the Square Wave or VC Noise level (whichever is selected for that output), plus the EG signal is supplied on a separate output jack.

LFO
Wide range triangle LFO - less than .2 Hz to greater than 200 Hz over three ranges. The LFO is provided on a separate output jack.

All signal outputs are 10Vp-p. Square/Noise output has volume control for direct connect to amplifiers, etc. EG output is 0 to 5V.

The cool thing about this: it's designed with the famous Thomas Henry economy of design - a few parts are rendering a lotta functionality. For example, there are only four IC's, including the SN76477in the device.

Enough blather - this morning I received the posted sample from Thomas himself demonstrating the SN-Voice.

This is what he has to say about the sample:

Quote:
I'm pretty new at doing samples in this format, and my computer is some 7 years old now, but I think it'll come through okay for you. There are two voices in the piece (which is by Bach). The one is an organ voice provided by my computer's sound card; I chose it since its frequency would be crystal controlled and could serve as a reference. The other voice, of course, is the SN-Voice using the LFO to modulate the PW.

There is no filtering, etc., but I did add in a bit of reverb to make it all sound a little more musical.


He closed the email with this:

Quote:
Why didn't we come up with this two decades ago when the SN76477 was a hot commodity?


Anyway, here's the sample.

Cheers,
Scott

Edit: Added signal level and LFO ouput info. VCO Expo FM is 'modulation' not 'moiudulation'.


SN_Voice.mp3
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fab! Great to see the vernerable SN76477 used so effectively. Amazing acutally. Can't wait to see the schematic.

Thanks for posting this as an exclusive... Cool

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

T-riffic. i was undecided about making a 76477 standalone synth because, for one thing, it is easy enough to get it's functionality [and more] out of the many simple circuits in my 'schematic library' i have been compiling from the net for years. but the expo VCO tips the scale in terms of design simplicity and compact-ness vs. functionality.

i wonder if this is accomplished in any way like it is with the 566 in the "tunable noise generator""? guess ill have to wait and see.

a simple vcf and perhaps a pll slave osc would be cool
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shawn



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow. Only 4 ICs, incredible. Would love to see a schematic of this soon. I've collected most of Thomas Henry's books when he was selling them. Would love to read a full writeup.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Topp,

I don't have the 566 circuit in front of me, but I'd imagine it's probably pretty close, certainly the same concept. It's fairly close to the XR VCO, too. There are few other caveats to doing it with the SN76477 - there's a certain amount of interplay between what voltage/current had to be on a pin or two of the SN76477 and how much of a range could be had with it. Obviously, it's a fairly non-standard setup for the SN76477.
Plus, the amount of current the SN76477 likes to see in the expo converter is going to be different than the 566 or XR2206.

I guess I better get on the stick and get the page up (I've been out of town this week on business, otherwise a good chunk of it would be up already).

Oh - and the filter - yep, there's no filter with this design (other than the noise filter, which really isn't the same kind of thing you're talking about here). As far as that goes, any color you choose Very Happy

Best Regards,
Scott
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Shawn,

I'll give it a full write-up, for sure. I'll write it up, and have Thomas check it over for accuracy/mistakes, etc.

Cheers,
Scott
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott, great to hear! Btw, I enjoy reading your website quite a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's certainly leaps and bounds above the quality of anything I ever got out of the SN76477. Still, I was only 17 when they were new and plentiful.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bravo !!! I am so impressed with that sample !! The 76477 chip brings back memories for me. Coming from someone who can eek out 10 full octaves out of a 566 VCO, I am not surprised! It seems that the exponential converter works quite well. Wow, TI better start producing more of these "obsolete - sure ok..." chips!! Wink

Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why these chips are obsolete is because they had application engineers that didn't provide suitable example uses. Well, partially. Anyway, the new circuit configurations that get the most out of these chips would have made these much more popular in their day.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Preview Sample of the Thomas Henry SN76477 Voice Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Thomas Henry SN76477 Based SN-Voice Module

I don't have a page up for it yet, but here's an electro-music exclusive on what this is all about (this is the first time the circuit has been discussed anywhere publicly).


I put together a kit with one of these on it, back in the 80's.
It was a pretty small board with a speaker, some leds, and a few switches or pots. I don't remember what happened to the thing. I think I bought it out of Popular Electronics or some similar magazine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: SN76 Preview Sample Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Scott!

The sample is very nice. You know what the sound reminds me of? The much-fabled C64 SID chip. I remember some old sound demos on my C64 (which I foolishly gave away a few decades ago) that sounded very much like the sample you posted. Great stuff!


Tim (how was I to know I'd want that C64 back) Servo

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mosc Wrote:
Quote:
Why these chips are obsolete is because they had application engineers that didn't provide suitable example uses. Well, partially. Anyway, the new circuit configurations that get the most out of these chips would have made these much more popular in their day.


Yes, the chip probably would have been more popular if better applications were developed. I agree very much with that observation as this is true for lots of IC's.

Another probable reason for it's, 76477, demise is due to the fact that during the 80's, lots of FM synthesis chips were hitting the market by companies like Yamaha. The "FM" sound was on the rise back then. This lessened the popularity of the "mono-synth" chips. Also, larger scale sound devices were hitting the market like the C64's SID chip that had 3 DCO's, Noise, Filters, Ring MOD, LFO, etc ....
Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the major stumbling block was getting information about what you could actually do with a chip like that. I had one, which I was sure at the time, could do alot more than simulated toy bombs and farting noises, but there was no backup as far as paperwork goes. I was only 16-17 at the time, so without any guidance I was scared I'd blow it up if I started "experimenting".
When I wanted to do "real" music, I turned on my 2 SH101s and the TR606! Rolling Eyes Shocked
And now it's come full circle, that sample you posted, Scott, sounds heaps better than any upper register sounds I ever got out of an SH101! I have no doubt that this "SNVCO" would put out a decent bassline to! Surprised
Of course now we have the internet, and someone can learn about new ideas from the other side of the world, and download schems, immediately.
It's bizzare that something as seemingly advanced as an integrated circuit can actually be found, in hindsight, to be ahead of it's time! Confused
I'm still amazed at how rich and intriguing the process of life can be.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It's bizzare that something as seemingly advanced as an integrated circuit can actually be found, in hindsight, to be ahead of it's time! Confused
I'm still amazed at how rich and intriguing the process of life can be.


So many ways to look at things! Thats why I love this group. So many intelligent people with REAL things to say.

Life can be a fun ride if your mind and body let it Very Happy

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you! Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
Mosc Wrote:
Quote:
Why these chips are obsolete is because they had application engineers that didn't provide suitable example uses. Well, partially. Anyway, the new circuit configurations that get the most out of these chips would have made these much more popular in their day.


Yes, the chip probably would have been more popular if better applications were developed. I agree very much with that observation as this is true for lots of IC's.

Another probable reason for it's, 76477, demise is due to the fact that during the 80's, lots of FM synthesis chips were hitting the market by companies like Yamaha. The "FM" sound was on the rise back then. This lessened the popularity of the "mono-synth" chips. Also, larger scale sound devices were hitting the market like the C64's SID chip that had 3 DCO's, Noise, Filters, Ring MOD, LFO, etc ....
Bill


Ehhh- you guys do know about the Sidstation and other SID-based sound boxes out there for sale, right?
I remember reading about one that had several SIDS in one box- I htink it was 3 or 4 ??? Kindof expensive, but the SID-freaks really went for it.
As well as the free SID soft-emulators for Windows (probably Linux too)?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I think the major stumbling block was getting information about what you could actually do with a chip like that. I had one, which I was sure at the time, could do alot more than simulated toy bombs and farting noises, but there was no backup as far as paperwork goes. I was only 16-17 at the time, so without any guidance I was scared I'd blow it up if I started "experimenting".


That's exactly it, plus State Machine's observations on how the SN76477 fell prey to more specialized, advanced IC's - march of progress and all that.

But, yeah, the SN76477 datasheet itself is amazingly brief on the real nitty gritty of what's going on in the thing. There's nothing really to go on if one wanted to break out of the mold of the gunshot/bleepy fart sound effects genre. Thomas did reserve a special comment or two for the author(s) of the datasheet Very Happy He certainly figured some stuff out about the IC that just wasn't in the datasheet, stuff that would have stopped me cold. He mentioned he could have designed the circuit in half the time, had the datasheet been a bit more than cursory.

Other than Thomas' SuperController and John Blacet's Dark Star Chaos, the schematics to neither of which are public domain, very few things really came along for the SN76477.

Hey Tim Servo welcome

I've been working on the web page today - I blew a good chunk of yesterday just playing with the circuit. What a blast. I interfaced it to the modular. I gotta tell you, one module that really plays well with it is Ken Stone's wave multiplier - that's one of those modules I get on my knees and thank the powers that be for every day - does amazing things with a triangle wave. If I make a minisynth with this, I'll definitely toss in one of those. I'd post a sample, but holy cow, Thomas is a hard act to follow Very Happy

Take care,
Scott
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
I gotta tell you, one module that really plays well with it is Ken Stone's wave multiplier - that's one of those modules I get on my knees and thank the powers that be for every day - does amazing things with a triangle wave. If I make a minisynth with this, I'll definitely toss in one of those. I'd post a sample, but holy cow, Thomas is a hard act to follow Very Happy


You can't just say something like that and then not provide a sample! I've got to hear it! Very Happy

This is some amazing work, really. So much great sound from one little chip.

Welcome, indeed, to Tim Servo. It's good to see more of the sdiy list folks showing up here. But I guess that's because I'd rather read a forum that is properly archived and has a nice comment and reply structure than a long string of email replies to peice something together.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Edit: Was going to load samples - can't at the moment. I'll post later.

Cheerio,
Scott
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The poor data sheets is what I was referring to. Application engineers are the people in the IC companies that write the data sheets and the application notes. In some ways, applicaition engineering is one of the most important jobs in the IC company, but unfortunately it is often looked upon as a 2nd rate job. The circuit designers get all the glory. Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy wrote:
Quote:

Ehhh- you guys do know about the Sidstation and other SID-based sound boxes out there for sale, right?
I remember reading about one that had several SIDS in one box- I htink it was 3 or 4 ??? Kindof expensive, but the SID-freaks really went for it.
As well as the free SID soft-emulators for Windows (probably Linux too)?


Oh sure. but yes, the "SID-based sound boxes" are very expensive indeed! I have not used any of the emulators, but have used SIDPLAY, a real cool SID file player for the PC. Aside from the SID chips in my Commodore computer collection, I have one lonely chip in my parts bin. Someday I will use it. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It's certainly leaps and bounds above the quality of anything I ever got out of the SN76477. Still, I was only 17 when they were new and plentiful.


Your not the only one brother! I was just fine and dandy with those chuffing steam engine sounds and other crappy sound FX I got out of it back when I was about that age to Confused . Come to think of it, Mosc is right, those application circuits really did blow hard (well, he said it with more "class" than I do Very Happy ). I downloaded the data sheet today just to take a look and refresh my memory.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, OK, but these are really sucky samples, musically speaking. Not only do a couple of them showcase the wave multiplier working with the SN-Voice triangle, but they also amply display my sausage-fingered tendencies (actually my fingers are fairly thin, but this tiny keyboard I chose to hack up has very tiny keys). I recorded these last Saturday when I was fiddling around with the circuit. Just noodling around, running the SN-Voice through the paces with my l'il modular. All sound generation and modulation is provided by the SN-Voice.

Sample 1

The patch is this: The pulse output of the SN-Voice is patched straight into my 2040 clone filter. The triangle wave is patched into the triangle input of the wave multiplier, then out the folds output to a second input of the same filter.

The EG output of the SN-Voice is going to the folds CV input of the wave multiplier and one CV input of the filter. The LFO output of the SN-Voice is going to the offset control of the wave multiplier and to a second CV input of the filter. The output of the filter is going straight to the amplifier, and the recorder is just recording from the line-in of the amplifier.

The SN-Voice is set to modulate the PW of the pulse wave with the SN-Voice's EG.

The sample starts out with just the pulse wave heard - I have the output of the wave multiplier turned all the way down. The CV inputs of the filter are turned all the way down, too - the SN-Voice EG and LFO are not modulating the filter.

Then the sample pauses and I turn up the input attenuator of the second input to the filter, the wave multiplier signal. Because the triangle wave is not controlled by the SN-Voice EG, it's constantly on, so even if I don't hit the keyboard, you can still hear it as a sort of drone, modulated by the SN-Voice's LFO.

Then, when I do start playing notes, a mix of the wave multiplier and square wave can be heard (the SN-voice is set so the square wave passes through the internal VCA of the SN-Voice). The EG also is modulating the 'folds' of the wave multiplier. Then, as I'm playing the two lower notes (badly) I first bring up the LFO CV on the filter and then the EG level on the filter (the lower notes display my inability to accomplish two tasks at the same time).

Then I play some higher notes again, and the sample fades out.

So, in addition to the SN-Voice, this sample uses a filter and the wave multiplier. And the analog delay on the output.

The tone the wave multiplier provides, to me, is just pretty cool - it can do so much, it just amazes me.

Sample 2

The second sample is just a hodge-podge collage of some sounds I played with on Saturday. They were on different tracks of the D8, I just sort of mixed them in and out. It's a fair demonstration of how the SN-Voice can do musically-intervalled sounds as well as some pretty cool effects of the non-fart variety (these are more DSC2000-like sounds). I used the same filter and a VCA with these sounds, but no wave multiplier. I used a Ray Wilson LFO to auto gate it on a couple of tracks, but all modulation and voices heard are provided by the SN-Voice (many sounds are accomplished by self-modulating the SN-Voice, using the noise output to modulate the triangle wave, things like that).

Sample 3

The third sample is another sausage finger expose. The first part of this one uses the Wave Multiplier (it's the same patch as the first sample). On this one, I'm modulating the expo input with the output of the pulse, so it bends all over the place. Then, the second part is the same thing, but no wave multiplier - this demonstrates the fart-capability of the SN-voice in conjunction with a filter. This part cracks me up, because for a brief instant, the very ending of it morphs sort of into an arcade-type of sound (I guess the fruit never falls far from the tree Very Happy ) before it changes into a more synth-like sound.

Cheerio,
Scott
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Well, OK, but these are really sucky samples, musically speaking.


Sounds like good space music, to me. I like it. Such a wonderful variety of sounds from just a few modules. Great stuff! Very Happy

In that first one, I really like how the echoing notes increase in pitch sometimes. It makes a nice little melody and is a really amusing effect. Is that two tracks or is that live?
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