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SN-Voice Web Page Up and Running
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: SN-Voice Web Page Up and Running
Subject description: New Titillating Naked Samples Posted
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The SN-Voice web page is done.

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id22.html

Took longer to do the page than Thomas took to design the circuit....

Take care,
Scott







=================

The web page is taking much longer than I figured it would be - there's just so much info I want to put on it, and the ISP based web software is aggravation incarnate (not to mention slow as the dickens).
more coffee!!

I imagine it's a couple of days out still, but I figured why wait to link to the schematics? You guys don't need me telling you how this works anyway, so here it is, for the electro-music SDIY forum:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/sn-voice.zip

And, of course I should mention the standard fair use disclaimer in this email, since it's not on the schematic:

The SN-Voice design is for personal use only and may not be published or used for commercial purposes without permission of Thomas Henry or Scott Stites.

As I mentioned, I've got quite a bit done on the web page, but quite a bit still to go (I'd like to make this a one-stop resource for everything needed to put one of these together). It will include calibration, circuit notes, construction notes, operation, parts procurement, modifications (I imagine other wheels on this list will turn on that), and a eulogy for the SN76477. cry

If you've got any questions about it, let me know!

Cheers,
Scott

Last edited by Scott Stites on Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott,

Very good !!! Thanks a bunch !!!

Very Happy

Bill
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bigtex



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yay!!!

Is the "Keyboard" input on the Noise a 1V/Oct input? I know that the clocked noise can have a pitched sound, so I'm wondering if it actually tracks and can be played like an oscillator.

This is great. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Is the "Keyboard" input on the Noise a 1V/Oct input?


Why, yes it is! You can plug your keyboard into it and pound out cool pitched noise note things.

I've got the page mostly done.

If you'd like to read what I've got (quite a few details) just go here:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/index.html

Now - look at the very top of the page, the left hand corner. Right next to the link for the Thomas Henry XR VCO is a dot. Click on that dot and you're at the SN-Voice page.

There's still a bit to add as far as a couple of modifications I dreamed up while on the road last week - these came along too late for inclusion in the final schematic and after Thomas had torn down his breadboard, but they're working great for me.

1. Gate mode - this is a bit different than the EG mode. This just gates the VCA on and off with the keyboard gate - the attack/sustain controls don't have any effect on the EG. This works really well for snappy sequencer driven stuff and keyboard as well. The SN76477 EG is just a tad slow for some apps, IMO (I've experienced the same thing with my DSC2000), and this really adds a lot of versatility at the price of an extra resistor.

2. EG response control - this kind of goes hand in hand with the Gate Mode - one can have either/or or both of these controls. Anyway, this control full CCW will provide a much snappier response and full CW will put it at the original EG response of the SN76477 - you'll still want that, because the original EG response does have a nice effect, and dovetails particularly well with the EG controlled PWM.

3. Extra position for narrow pulse. If one is using a rotary switch to select the three PWM modes, an extra position will enable the narrowest pulse possible - makes a great contrast to the 50% duty cycle square and produces a nice reedy tone. I think it's controllable through a pot, but the range of adjustment really isn't all that great - you'd probably find yourself just going to one side or the other anyway....

I apologize for the American-centric parts section - I simply don't know of any places overseas where the parts can be had. If anyone does, please let me know, and I will add them.

Cheerio,
Scott
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm....expo tuning says set at 60 Hz, add a volt and tune for 60 Hz. Oops. What kind of curve is that? Infinite Volts/Octave? Very Happy

That's something to fix.....
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here it is:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id22.html

Cheerios,
Scott
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Superb web page. Congrats... Very Happy
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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now, with more samples!

Wow, and they all sound so amazing. I can't wait to find my chips! (I need a bigger apartment Smile ... stuff piled on top of stuff Sad )

Last edited by bigtex on Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys!

I'll keep the page fairly dynamic - more stuff is coming down the pike with the SN-Voice. I'll post changes here.

Cheerio,
Scott
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey i was just posting about SN76477's on the modularsynth.net forum last month but nobody seemed interested - so this is a nice surprise Smile


Scott - I'm sure you've seen this before, but what do you make of this 1V/Hz control of the SN76477?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

(this document helps make sense of that schematic: http://www.mkv.mh.se/staff/per/diy/76477/chapter2.pdf )


anyhow, it would be fantastic is somebody was interested in running a batch of pcb's of the SN-Voice - i would definitely buy a few.


Cheers,
michel

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject: The SN sound collage :) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great sound collage Scott!!

I suppose though in a way what is really depressing is that it is only us DIY'ers who know that this project was created on the old space invaders chip and not a fully blown synthesiser.

Groovy as this project may be, it still sounds like a 'normal' synth to the uninitiated ear. I think the SID chip had more character than the SN7 and so therefore stuck out much more as a unique sound.

However, I will put my money where my mouth is (when I have finished certain house DIY projects) and get that sequencer up and running Wink !!!!

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Groovy as this project may be, it still sounds like a 'normal' synth to the uninitiated ear. I think the SID chip had more character than the SN7 and so therefore stuck out much more as a unique sound.


Thanks, Tom, now I have to wipe off my computer screen - should have waited to read this before taking a sip Very Happy

Reason I say this is because of a conversation with I just had with Thomas - making the SN76477 sound like a 'normal' synth was exactly the goal he was after.

That has to do a bit with the cryptic "more coming down the pike" line in my email above (and what sparked the conversation with Thomas). In fact, everything but the collage was geared towards 'normal' synth applications to stress the point. Now, I don't have a clue whether the SN76477 can sound like a SID chip (I would doubt it, they're two different beasts), but there's certainly more one can do with the SN-Voice to expand the pallette towards what the SN76477 was 'naturally' geared for. Magic Smokian Tim Parkhurst pointed that out, which sparked the conversation.

Quote:
Scott - I'm sure you've seen this before, but what do you make of this 1V/Hz control of the SN76477?


Looks pretty interesting. I've read a bit on Get LoFi about a fellow by the name of Synthmonger who's put together that particular design or one pretty close to it (seems to me he may market it as well). Have you tried it? I wonder how well it works with V/Hz keyboards like the old PAiA and Korg stuff?

Take care,
Scott
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott - I haven't tried this schematic yet as I'm trying to figure out how to combine a bunch of ideas to get the most out of my sn76477's.

I keep on dreaming of a freaky 5-voice modular poly setup using these, even though it's kind of ridiculous... then again, now that CEM3394's are so hard to find, why not?

The most interesting thing about that schematic is the 555 chip that's being used to switch between the A, B & C control lines so that two simultaneous signals can be passed to the envelope shaper (see the text at the bottom of the schematic).

I know you had reservations of biting ideas from Blacet, but I don't know how you could resist implementing this mod *lol* I think that this mixer would add some fantastic timbral variations, especially if you added a pot to control the speed of the 555.

Cheers,
michel

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I keep on dreaming of a freaky 5-voice modular poly setup using these, even though it's kind of ridiculous... then again, now that CEM3394's are so hard to find, why not?


Nothing ridiculous about that in my book - that's the beauty of DIY - if it doesn't exist, build it!

Quote:
The most interesting thing about that schematic is the 555 chip that's being used to switch between the A, B & C control lines so that two simultaneous signals can be passed to the envelope shaper (see the text at the bottom of the schematic).


Yes, this is what Tim Parkhurst pointed out to me. Actually, mixing can be done without the 555, but what the 555 allows is proportional mixing.

Quote:
I know you had reservations of biting ideas from Blacet, but I don't know how you could resist implementing this mod *lol* I think that this mixer would add some fantastic timbral variations, especially if you added a pot to control the speed of the 555.


To be honest, the whole project happened so quickly, I was pedaling as fast as I could to keep up with Thomas. Then I went into the web page phase, and he moved on to first one project, then the next (I'm already behind on those).

Thomas had early on (before I even saw it) experimented with the mixer and a switch matrix, but chucked it because he was more interested in producing standard synth tones with the design and putting it under expo control.

We avoided the DSC2000 for a couple of reasons. The first being, out of respect for John Blacet's IP (he has not released the design for public consumption). The second was, even if I'd have offered to share my knowledge of it and Thomas didn't have the scruples he has concerning IP, I don't think Thomas would have been interested - he pretty much likes to whip things up on his own with just a datasheet in hand and an idea in mind. Which is nice, because a lot of times that's where designers come up with fresh ideas.

In keeping the spirit of Thomas' vision of the SN-Voice, I concentrated on samples displaying the more standard synth-like characteristics of the SN-Voice. Without modification, it will actually produce a lot of the more space/arcade/tires squealing/gunshot/explosion/enter-sound-here effects. In fact, the expo control allows one to take these type of sounds to a new level. I strayed slightly into that territory with the 'collage' sample.

For example, if you modulate the VCO heavily with the LFO, while simultaneously modulating the pulse width, there lies some very arcade-like alien death screams. Flip it to noise, and there are your arcade space ship sounds.

Modulate the triangle wave with the EG controlled or locked noise signal, and modulate the noise signal and VCO - more of the same vein of effects. As you decrease the modulation, the SN-Voice morphs into a standard synth. The LFO and EG outputs provide a valuable means to force external modules to bend to the whims of the SN-Voice - VCA's, Filters, Wave Multipliers, LFO's, VCO's, etc. can perform in concert with these effects, and the result of that is an exponential expansion of what can be done with it. And it goes the other way - keyboards, sequencers, LFO's, S&H's, VCO's, etc can in-turn force the SN76477 into new directions.

Put two SN-Voices in the same box - FM the two triangle waves together, and you get your FM bells, gongs, whatever from the triangle waves (this is a class of sound the SN76477 is fairly alien to, pun intended).

But, the mixer combinations - yes, a veritable goldmine if bizarro noise is something you seek (plus some nice standard synth functions as well). Nothing says the SN-Voice can't be bent, or web pages grow, or Magic Smoke boards can't accomodate, for that matter. Very Happy

Cheers,
Scott
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, and

welcome Sneakthief!!!

Cheers,
Scott
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

scott - thanks for the welcome and for your detailed response!

although having lurked here for a while, seeing two threads that were right up my alley made me immediately jump on board.

fwiw, john blacet released this schematic on the Synth-DIY list:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

(from John's post here http://elists.resynthesize.com/synth-diy/2001/05/791538/ )

it's missing the cv-control but it's yet another public schematic Smile

cheers,
michel

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Most excellent, thank you for that! I'd never seen that.

This looks to be the original Dark Star, which bears little resemblance to the DSC2000 schematic (which John hasn't released), though it looks like the gating is fairly similar.

Now if he'd just dig up that Synbow schematic......

Cheers,
Scot
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:

Thanks, Tom, now I have to wipe off my computer screen - should have waited to read this before taking a sip Very Happy



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Very Happy

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Very Happy



..and now... the COMFY CHAIR!

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bigtex



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has MyPeoplePC been hijacked or something???

All pages under mypeoplepc.com (including yours) come up like this. The strangest part is the 2003 copyright at the bottom (see 2nd image).

What????


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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beats me - I just accessed my page - didn't get any offers for toaster ovens or anything. I'm not sure what's going on. Is this happening to anyone else?

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id22.html


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bigtex



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Huh. Maybe my company's or ISP's DNS servers farted...

I'm still getting that ridiculous page, though. And I was looking at your real page just earlier today (and listening to the sound samples again Smile ). I'll try clearing out all of my caches and forcing reloads.... very strange....
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hope it clears up!

Take care,
Scott
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm just getting ready to build two SN76477 voices! My only modification is adding the 555 mixer control.

Scott: are there any plans to build a PCB for this, as mentioned on the site?

Without further ado, here's my frac layout (1+1/2 units wide, ie. 4.5") that features my very favourite ghetto-ass Dymo labelling:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

VCO / Output side:

- Linear FM pot + input jack + ac/dc switch
- LFO pot + output jack + low/medium/high range rotary
- Exponential FM pot + input jack
- Coarse frequency pot + 1V/Oct input jack
- Fine Tune pot + triangle wave output jack + PWM rotary (20% /50% / env/ eg source)
- Output level pot + mix output jack


Noise / Envelope side:

- KB tracking input jack + Initial noise pot
- Noise Sweep input jack + Noise Sweep pot
- Noise Filter pot
- Switches 1-3: enable VCO / Noise / PWM on mixer circuit***
- Switches 4-6: enable 555 mixing of VCO / Noise / PWM on mixer circuit***
- Mixer pot to control 555 mixing proportion
- Gate input jack + Attack pot
- Envelope select switch + Envelope output jack + Release pot


***
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Ray Wilson happily supplied my tempco's, and I'm going to use rsonline.de to order the LF444's because I'm also ordering SSM2164's form them.

Cheers,
michel

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wait a sec, those 6 switches aren't very elegant - i'm going to go look for a couple of those code-switches like the kind that plug into scsi drives to select a scsi id.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

cheers,
michel

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