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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
That 70's sound!
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: That 70's sound! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill Zoot wrote:
...but am looking for something specific - THAT 70'S SOUND!!!


What is "that 70s sound"? Shocked
David Vorhaus or Zawinul?
Wakeman or Vega?
Laughing

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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 70s sound had a lot to do with the latest and greatest technology and in those days there wasn't a lot of talk about "retro" technology.

And, as such, there are a lot of different things that come to mind when thinking about synthesizers in the 70s. For instance, sequencers, sample/holds, and tracking oscillators were definitely "in". External Phasers hit the scene -- Tomita used them a lot. There were electronic drums that many consider "cheesy" today. Detuned oscillators to produce "string" sounds were "in".

So many people were doing so many different things it is hard to come up with THE 70s sound (are you looking for Wendy Carlos' 70s sound or "The Who's" 70s sound?). The controllers, outboard effects, and the performers themselves influenced the sound as much as the synths did.

As far as a synth recommendation, it depends on what slice of the 70's you want.

The Moog filters are classic, and MiniMoogs are coveted. The Arp's have sample/holds that the Moogs don't have.

A simple, single oscillator synth that accepts external CVs might do the job... you could acquire external modules as modulation sources. A single-oscillator synth that is entirely hard-wired may give you an overly-limited slice of the 70's.

The analog synths are subject to noise, distortion, and drifting that will either add or detract from your sound, depending on what you want.

Have fun... will be interesting to hear what you end up doing.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:



Read my posts again.


Okay- it was late...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: That 70's sound! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Bill Zoot wrote:
...but am looking for something specific - THAT 70'S SOUND!!!


What is "that 70s sound"? Shocked
David Vorhaus or Zawinul?
Wakeman or Vega?
Laughing


Tonto's Expanding Head Band. They were very 'fat' sounding. But then I may be rekindling the idea that you need a 3c to get 'that' sound Rolling Eyes

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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morbius



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must confess that I didn't have time to read all of the replies....

If 70's sounds are what you're after... just about any analog or analog modular will do the trick. And the trick is know how to get the sounds you want.

As you get more digital, you get less authentic 70's (IMO). Still, if you want or need to keep the budget small... someone mentioned the MS-2000 being pretty cheap these days Sad I've got one... love it... and think it would get you there very easily... plus it's got some good, modern extras.

Should you have more available in your bank account, and really want the 70's sound... well... get you a modular.

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Electronicant



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:


Hot
Roland – Almost everything else
Yamaha – CS80/60
Korg – 700 (the dual oscillator version)
ARP – Odyssey, 2600
Moog – Mini, Memory, Source
Octave – Cat SRM
EMS – Synthi AKS


The Oberheims and Sequential Prophets as well.
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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
It seems a common assumption, that any real analogue synthesiser is superior to any digital emulation.
They made a lot of great synthesisers in the 70’s, a lot of which I would like to own now. They also made a lot of crap.
I would not bother with anything that only had one VCO for example.
Maybe we should do a hot and not hot list of 70’s synthesisers

Not Hot
Roland - SH1000, SH1, SH101, MC202, any Juno
Yamaha - Any mono synth except CS30
Korg – All the MS range, Monopoly, 70’s Microkorg, Any DW
ARP – Axxe, Prosoloist, Omni
Moog – Poly, Minute, Micro, Multi, Sonic Six
Octave – Kitten

Hot
Roland – Almost everything else
Yamaha – CS80/60
Korg – 700 (the dual oscillator version)
ARP – Odyssey, 2600
Moog – Mini, Memory, Source
Octave – Cat SRM
EMS – Synthi AKS


Half of these are actually 80s synths Smile

Regardless of that you can get some greats sounds out of most of those you've listed as not hot and I'd have any of them over a soft synth or a DSP based synth anyday.

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opg



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It seems like you could almost work backwards. Find the synths that were available in the seventies, and then determine what sounds you are trying to achieve with that synth. If it's not possible to, say, create an arpeggio with a MiniMoog (just a random selection from the list), then find out what other hardware may have been used with the Moog in the 70s to create the effect.

I usually think this way when I'm trying to give sounds a 60s or 50s sound. Back then, there were very little options regarding microphones and microphone placement, stereo sound and different types of reverb, for example.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

opg wrote:
Back then, there were very little options regarding microphones and microphone placement, stereo sound and different types of reverb, for example.


Quite so but also remember that they did feel a large need for more options and that this led to more concious thought about what to use where and how. Many recording from those days are in fact very creative.

For example; I listened to a lot of 60's music especially to try and pick up how the recording process influenced the sound and I'm convinced that where they bounced several tracks to a single tape channel they carefully considdered which ones would fit together musically. In these days of 64 or more channels getting used in DAW's that's a perspective that's no longer needed but so it's also a creative tool and a point to stop and think that got lost.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
opg wrote:
Back then, there were very little options regarding microphones and microphone placement, stereo sound and different types of reverb, for example.


Quite so but also remember that they did feel a large need for more options and that this led to more concious thought about what to use where and how. Many recording from those days are in fact very creative.


In my opinion, this is most fundamental way to awaken your own creativity and get out of writer's blocks. This has a bit to do with the robotics/technology thread, but when you are driven to create music but don't have very much to use, the one thing that will stand out is your creativity. Autechre started out by splicing cassette tapes. I had a Casio SK-1, a drumset, and a cassette recorder with a built-in mic (though I was just a kid, so I probably wasn't thinking about "tracks" or "the stereo field).

This is also why I am trying to avoid VST instruments and plug-ins. Everything is all there, ready to use. There's nothing to set up. When you're struggling to make mic cables reach and adjusting overdrive and wah pedals that are attached to toy keyboards that are buried underneath pots and pans, you're in a rush to get the sound in your head on tape/computer before you lose it. That energy is what helps give me boosts of creativity. Idea

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The other thing is, when you limit yourself you really get to know your gear. This is part of the reason why I decided to go 100% legit and buy everything I wanted to use - there was no way in hell I could afford the wealth of plugins I had amassed a few years ago, so I had to cut right back to the basics. 1 sequencer with it's built in EQ's, compressors, filters etc. I learnt pretty quickly that it's not the gear you have but how you use it. No matter what gear you have, if you get to know it inside out you can get it to do the things you want it to do (even if you didn't know it at the time Wink).
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed, with limited equipment one is forced to be resourceful. You might be interested to hear what I did back in 1976 with the equipment at hand.

During the summer of 1976 I had for the first time, acquired a multi-track recorder (a Teac A3340S) and the only electronic sound source I had was a Hammond E-100 organ (I recorded directly from the line-out). I used a 60's transistorized JC Penny's tape recorder as a distortion unit for the "lead" track.

I recorded at 1/2 speed so I could could get a more "mechanical" effect and have more time to manipulate drawbars and other Hammond controls. Lacking adapter plugs, I seem to recall using alligator clips to get the Hammond sound in and out of the Penny's recorder.

I had to play as mechanically as possible to create a "sequencer" kind of effect.

In the remix I took a little artistic license and used some gentle phasing to make the lead part "spread" out. I also noise-gated and notched out the 60hz hum. Other than that, you are hearing what I did with the equipment at hand.

Now, I know this is probably NOT the 70s sound you had in mind -- however, synths were at the time very pricey and for all intents and purposes only professionals and universities had them. At the time I recorded this, I had made my first order with Aries Music -- the modular synth was on the way! While waiting for it, I had some fun with the A3340S.

In some ways electronic music-making is tougher these days. There are so many options that one can go into option-shock. The decisions with an organ, a recorder-turned-distortion unit, and a tape-recorder were pretty easy!
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
Half of these are actually 80s synths Smile


Yeah I did kind of wander into the early 80's with some of those Rolands. It was more a general rant about overrated old budget synthesisers.

Which had their place I guess. And you are absolutely correct, in the right hands, all these synthesisers have at least one or two good sounds in them.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
IYou might be interested to hear what I did back in 1976 with the equipment at hand.


Hey, I like this one. It has a musicality that is refreshing. I like the "sound" too. Wink

Thanks for posting this...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Soft Chav Synths
Subject description: Rant
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My problem with soft synths from the very start is that they all seem to be aimed at mindless 14 year olds with a penchant for chavved-up Vauxhall Novas. (read: cheap under-powered car with added stripes, accessories and loud exhaust) Usable user-interface? No, but "Wow mate, dunnit just look like a well wikked synth" The person who first thought that rotary knob style controls work well with a computer screen and a mouse needs a firm and hard slap followed by a punch right up his bracket.

Future note for all programming monkeys: Provide a skin with standard windows interface or don't expect me to even look at it. And that applies to your brigade of Monkeys too, Mr. Steinberg. Make it work first, give me my standard readable interface, then and only then assign a spare monkey to designing unusable UI skins for idiots who will never really use it.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Soft Chav Synths
Subject description: Rant
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Kerr_Avon wrote:
My problem with soft synths from the very start is that they...


Shocked

Wow, you stuck it to soft synths, programmers, 14 year olds, monkies, Mr. Steinberg and Vauxhall Novas! Very Happy

Hope you are feeling better now, Henry. Wink

Yipee, I get to use the latest addition to the emoticon collection. chill

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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Soft Chav Synths
Subject description: Rant
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Kerr_Avon wrote:
...Mr. Steinberg.


Indeed, the early Cubase versions that ran on Atari equipment had a klutzy GUI (particularly for the automated mixer) and it was easier just to work with the event lists.

Cubase SX3 has a really nice GUI -- the automated functions display and can be edited graphically along with the audio or midi event display. They still have a mixing console GUI that I find good for getting a "big" picture of things but for individual track automation, I prefer the graphical editor (definitely a windows style interface). Also, on the Mixers, the level trim is calibrated in db (actually, to 1/10 of a db) and can be set by typing the value into a field on the display.

Cubase's sample editing has always been excellent.

Some of the VST plugins use control knob style GUIs. I agree with you, slider controls seem more natural than knobs for a GUI.

Anyway... we have strayed way off-topic from "That 70's Sound". Smile
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Kerr_Avon



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Monkeys
Subject description: Programming
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All emoticons should be crucified

But now I really am off topic:}
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