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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Atari Punk Pots
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para



Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey i'm an idiot. i took a look at what forrest mims did to get his stepped-tone generator (which is what all of these are / or are based one) to drive an 8 ohm speaker and did this. odd but it makes perfect sense after looking at it. note the output 10u cap is flipped and the speaker is attached to the positive rail.


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.



sorry about that,

steven
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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Florida
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: APC Definitive Version Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!
So, I'm wondering, after all this discussion and schematics, which is the ideal and definitive layout for this little circuit for each of the two verions, that is for the 556 version and for the 2 555 integrated circuits?

Thanks!

TRON
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As I was chasing up parts for my soundlab, I thought I'd build an APC...

I drew up a strip board based on the worth ekik 556 layout. I thought I had it right... but guess what? No sound. Not even an LED!

Looks like I've run into the same problems that others have. Just wondering what the verdict is here. Has anyone managed to get a stripboard version working? If so, could you point us in the right direction? Question

I'm thinking I may have more luck with the dual 555 design... then again, maybe not.

Thanks,
Steve
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK... APC, arrow take 2

...and no luck! Sad This time I went with the Andrew Carrell strip board layout on page 3. There's a tiny amount of sound, I guess, when I turn one of the pots. The other pot doesn't seem to do that much at all. I am getting some loud noises when I touch the back of the board in various spots...

I'm assuming that I'm looking at the back of the pots in the layout. Maybe it's the front? I'll try switching the wires around- perhaps that might work?

Hopefully an update with good news soon! In the mean time, if anyone works out why such a simple looking circuit can be so problematic, feel free to contribute.

thanks
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

YAY! Finally! Got the BASTARD working!

Ok, what I did was scrap the 556 altogether and go for the 2x 555 strip/vero board layout on page 3 of this thread. There was some suggestion earlier that the cut between the two chips may be a mistake. I DIDN'T do a cut here as I couldn't see how R1 would be connected.

My previous attempts at the 556 version were disappointing. This 555 job really works well! It pumps out sound! I'm still in shock that it actually works! Particularly since I wasn't sure if the pots and jack were wired correctly.

I'd advise anyone who has had problems, or is thinking about building one of these, to go with the dual 555 layout. IT DEFINITELY WORKS! Hope this is of use to somebody.

Cheers,

Steve
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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Florida
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

Assuming that you are referring to para's stripboard design, where is the actual schematic diagram for it?
I am going to first protoboard it before trying to stripboard it... I know somebody will say I can figure it out, but I'm lazy today and it must already be out there somewhere... is it Mim's Stepped Tone Generator?

Thanks!

TRON
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, it's the Para one: Atari Punk Console With 555 Chips. It looks a lot like the Mims Stepped Tone Generator schematic, although it may be wired slightly differently with a couple more resistors. But I'm probably not the person to ask, being a novice at this stuff. All I know is I tried the 555 layout and it works. Note: I didn't do the cut between the two chips.
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datapark



Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: London, ON

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:52 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi

So, after about 2 years of talking about bending/building my own synth, I made a resolution to at least build ONE APC to see if I would really appreciate the fruit of my efforts before finally throwing in the towel and admitting I'm just never going to do it.

My interest was first sparked when I found Ghazallas book at Chapters and later online when I found MFOS and the Soundlab.

Searching for bends turned out to bore the crap out of me, and I've realized that a Soundlab is well beyond my abilities. I figured I'd go the APC route as they're cheap and supposedly simple.
I threw together a parts list from mouser.com and I'm hoping someone here would be kind enough to tell me if I have what I need to make this happen.
Specifically, I'm very unsure of the resistors as well I was confused by the SOP or DIP option for the LM556.

I chose my parts based on the schematic available at getlofi.com
http://www.getlofi.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/atarilayout.gif
Oh, and pots and knobs. Is my combo correct?? I think I mucked that up as well.

Oh, I do have some sort of experimenters PC board but would there be something better?

Try and be patient with me, cause I'm a total layman. I did try googling for a BoM but couldn't find anything complete. Apparently everyone else whose built them just happen to have half of what they needed laying about :p I'm not so fortunate.

Thank you.


Mouser #: 546-1593YBK
Mfr. #: 1593YBK
Desc.: General Purpose Plastic Enclosures 5.5 X 2.6 X 1.1

Mouser #: 512-LM556CN
Mfr. #: LM556CN
Desc.: Timers Dual Timer

Mouser #: 588-OX-1K-E
Mfr. #: OX102KE
Desc.: Ceramic Composition Resistors 1watt 1K 10%

Mouser #: 588-OX-10K-E
Mfr. #: OX103KE
Desc.: Ceramic Composition Resistors 1watt 10K 10%

Mouser #: 588-OX-4.7K-E
Mfr. #: OX472KE
Desc.: Ceramic Composition Resistors 1watt 4.7K 10%

Mouser #: 594-K103M15X7RF53H5
Mfr. #: K103M15X7RF53H5
Desc.: Ceramic Capacitors .2LS .01UF 50V 20%

Mouser #: 140-50U5-104M-RC
Mfr. #: 140-50U5-104M-RC
Desc.: Ceramic Disc Capacitors 50V .1uF Y5U 20% Tol

Mouser #: 661-EKMA500ETD100MF0
Mfr. #: EKMA500ETD100MF07D
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors 10UF 50V

Mouser #: 450-4641
Mfr. #: 450-4641
Desc.: Knobs SOFT TCH SH GY/RD

Mouser #: 31VC505
Mfr. #: RV24A-10-40R1-B55
Desc.: 24mm Carbon Potentiometers Linear 500K Solder Lugs

Mouser #: 31VJ501-F
Mfr. #: RV24AF-10-15R1-A100K
Desc.: 24mm Carbon Potentiometers Audio 100K

Mouser #: 633-M201101-BA-RO
Mfr. #: M2011SS1W01-BA-RO
Desc.: Toggle Switches ON-NONE-OFF SPST SMALL BAT TOGGLE

Mouser #: 502-11
Mfr. #: 11
Desc.: Phone Jacks 2 CONDUCTOR 1/4

Mouser #: 534-266
Mfr. #: 266
Desc.: Battery Holders, Contacts and Clips BATTERY SNAP FEMALE
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4760
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The only thing I would say is the 1W resistors should only be 1/4W. 1W would still work, but they're a bit big (physically). It would be heaps easier using the 1/4s.
I didn't check everything BTW.

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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Florida
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

I would've also bought a couple of 555 ICs, just in case...

Thanks!

TRON
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datapark



Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: London, ON

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
The only thing I would say is the 1W resistors should only be 1/4W. 1W would still work, but they're a bit big (physically). It would be heaps easier using the 1/4s.
I didn't check everything BTW.


Thanks for your response.
Do you think my cap choices are sufficient as well?

I went with 50V because MFOS recommended them (I think)



Tron - Do you really think the 555s are necessary? I have read the troubles listed on this board but everywhere else on the internet they're talking about using just a 556... :p


Thanks guys.
Anyone else with insights, please share them. I'm holding off on the order until I'm sure I've got what I need.

==
datapark
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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Florida
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

35V would have been enough...as for the 555s if you had too much problems with the 556 you could always give it a try with the 555s, but it's no big deal, Rat Shack has them...
What I don't see in your list is the Patience Pills (Valiums)... LOL
As a matter of fact I'm going to build one on a protoboard just for kicks...
Good luck and thanks

TRON
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hanley



Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 27
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

datapark wrote:

Mouser #: 31VC505
Mfr. #: RV24A-10-40R1-B55
Desc.: 24mm Carbon Potentiometers Linear 500K Solder Lugs

Mouser #: 31VJ501-F
Mfr. #: RV24AF-10-15R1-A100K
Desc.: 24mm Carbon Potentiometers Audio 100K


Mouser #: 502-11
Mfr. #: 11
Desc.: Phone Jacks 2 CONDUCTOR 1/4


the values for the pots are grand, #i dont think the knobs you got will fit on them though

check that their shaft size is the same

also the jack you picked is a phone jack
you prob want an guitar lead jack

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=erV61lVMmP%252bsoIlTuIE4TA%3d%3d

like that
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datapark



Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: London, ON

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hanley wrote:

the values for the pots are grand, #i dont think the knobs you got will fit on them though

check that their shaft size is the same

also the jack you picked is a phone jack
you prob want an guitar lead jack

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=erV61lVMmP%252bsoIlTuIE4TA%3d%3d

like that


Thanks!
I was wondering about the knobs... the shaft size is 6mm, and the sizing on mouser seems to range from 12mm to 24... should i be looking for a 24mm(the pots i chose) knob size??




Also, you said I need a guitar lead, whats the real difference between what I've chosen and what you posted?
They're both listed as female phone plugs for 1/4" plugs... am I missing something?
http://ca.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=11virtualkey50210000virtualkey502-11


Thanks again!

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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Florida
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

Mouser charges a lot for shipping and handling...

Almost everything you want is available at Radioshack...

Is there none where you live?

By the way, on what are you going to build this?

Which is that experimenter's board you mentioned on your first e-mail?

Thanks!

TRON
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datapark



Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 11
Location: London, ON

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No Radioshack in canada.

There is a circuit city but there section for this stuff is generally pitiful. they seem to be pulling out of it entirely now.

There are a handful of shops where i might find them but most are poorly stocked. Mouser seems like a good place to get what i need. than if i want to build more i can just order more 'projects" as it were.









whoa 20 bucks for shipping? this can't weigh that much

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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
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Location: Florida
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello!

I didn't know you were in Canada, sorry!

What are you building this on?

Can you breadboard or do you have to solder?

If you are going to directly solder I suggest some IC sockets too.

Thanks!

TRON
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datapark



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

its some PC experimenters board. i'll find out exactly what tomorrow. thanks for all the help.

whats an ic socket? :p

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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HELLO1

An IC socket is a little base the same suze as the IC that is soldered to the board instead of the IC and then you plug the IC on it.
This has 2 advantages:
1) You don't apply solder to the IC, thus avoiding the possibility of ruining it due to the heat, and
2) Should you have a defective IC you just remove the IC and substitute it with another one. Do you know what's a pain in the ass? Removing an IC from a circuit!

You can see one example here:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062602

Thanks!

TRON

PS: By the way, I don't work for Radio Shack, and to prove it here's the link to Mouser's page on the subject...

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?N=3407960&Keyword=ic+sockets&FS=True

Last edited by Tronato on Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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hanley



Joined: May 24, 2006
Posts: 27
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

datapark wrote:
hanley wrote:

the values for the pots are grand, #i dont think the knobs you got will fit on them though

check that their shaft size is the same

also the jack you picked is a phone jack
you prob want an guitar lead jack

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=erV61lVMmP%252bsoIlTuIE4TA%3d%3d

like that


Thanks!
I was wondering about the knobs... the shaft size is 6mm, and the sizing on mouser seems to range from 12mm to 24... should i be looking for a 24mm(the pots i chose) knob size??




Also, you said I need a guitar lead, whats the real difference between what I've chosen and what you posted?
They're both listed as female phone plugs for 1/4" plugs... am I missing something?
http://ca.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=11virtualkey50210000virtualkey502-11


Thanks again!


the jack you had picked out was for a telephone

unless you want to ring people with your apc...
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datapark



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Posts: 11
Location: London, ON

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hanley wrote:


the jack you had picked out was for a telephone

unless you want to ring people with your apc...


Smile
maybe i do? Smile

how could you tell btw? They're both listed as audio phone connectors --- they look similar enough to my eyes. Is there something I should be looking for?

Thanks!


Tronato - The PC Board I have is a grid style board by nexxtech (2760147).

Its a bit big but I'm still experimenting. If you have suggestions, I'd gladly take em.

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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello

I can't find any reference to the Nexxtech thing you sent me...

I have used and suggest something like this

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ECS-4/SOLDERABLE-PERF-BOARD-LINE-PATTERN/-/1.html

Thanks!

TRON
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datapark



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.thesource.ca/estore/product.aspx?language=en-CA&product=2760147
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Tronato



Joined: Sep 21, 2007
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Location: Florida
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello:

At this point you must forgive my ignorance: I've seen these boards around for a very long time and have never understood how to use them..
I have always used boards like the one para uses in page 3 of this thread,
where a series of holes are united in a strip and to interrupt the strip you just make a hole.
I can't understand how to use the pure hole boards... maybe you put the component in the holes, solder it and then when you want to send it's signal to another component you solder a wire to it and then solder the other end of the wire to the other component... so you then heat the component twice, first to install it and then to connect it. And what if the signal has to go to more than one destination? So, presumably, the copper side of the board must be quite messy. Must be hell to troubleshoot!

If somebody in the Forum more knowledgable could explain to me the benefits of this type of breadboard, I'd be very happy. Perhaps I've been wrong all my life!

I'm a firm believer that if a circuit looks nice it will most likely work. So during the process of making it look nice you are already troubleshooting for possible mistakes in advance. I don't particularly enjoy the so called Rat's Nest type of result!

But then that is just my opinion.

Thanks!

TRON

PS: Did you understand why I recommend IC Sockets?

Last edited by Tronato on Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RKHobbs



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That jack is NOT for a phone, despite the name.
It is a regular 1/4" jack like the kind you plug a guitar into.

It's called a phone jack because the old telephone company switchboards used that kind of plug.
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