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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
Looking for GOOD SYNTH Bass, the challlenge for Andromeda
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SecretAsianMan



Joined: May 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I own an Andromeda, but I don't post here regularly because this forum is a bit empty. I usually frequent other forums. Kind of a chicken-and-egg problem, it seems.

The Andy is easily my favorite synth. I don't know what it is about its sound, but something about it just appeals to me in a way that no other synth replicates. I've heard lots of Moogs and Obies, and I know that certain aspects of the A6 are modeled after them. I couldn't care less. There's just something specific and unique to the A6 that draws me in.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Traffic might increase as the used price of the A6 decreases.
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soundwave106



Joined: Nov 24, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Wow, pretty dead forum. Not much interest left in the A6, I guess.


My personal observations seem to indicate that there's plenty of interest in the Andromeda, but it's largely confined to the professional market. It's an expensive synthesizer, after all. Hobbyists these days are settling for plugins, and that's where the Euro-techno market has gone largely.

Almost caught in the middle are the keyboard virtual synthesizers. It used to be that dance concerts had the Viruses and Nords, but more and more I see bands doing everything on their Apple laptops with some controllers thrown in.

On the flip side of the coin, I'm seeing the Moog Voyager appear on a lot of the pop-star pro stages, next to the standard Triton or Motif. No wonder -- it sounds good and looks cool. The Andromeda doesn't appear on stage much it seems, but does appear in kit lists, most notably in American hip-hop and club-pop producers. People like Danja and Ryan Leslie have Andromedas in their arsenal. So, next time you listen to Britney Spears' latest hit, there might be some Andromeda sounds floating around in it.
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kraster



Joined: Aug 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

soundwave106 wrote:
Peake wrote:
Wow, pretty dead forum. Not much interest left in the A6, I guess.


My personal observations seem to indicate that there's plenty of interest in the Andromeda, but it's largely confined to the professional market. It's an expensive synthesizer, after all. Hobbyists these days are settling for plugins, and that's where the Euro-techno market has gone largely.

Almost caught in the middle are the keyboard virtual synthesizers. It used to be that dance concerts had the Viruses and Nords, but more and more I see bands doing everything on their Apple laptops with some controllers thrown in.

On the flip side of the coin, I'm seeing the Moog Voyager appear on a lot of the pop-star pro stages, next to the standard Triton or Motif. No wonder -- it sounds good and looks cool. The Andromeda doesn't appear on stage much it seems, but does appear in kit lists, most notably in American hip-hop and club-pop producers. People like Danja and Ryan Leslie have Andromedas in their arsenal. So, next time you listen to Britney Spears' latest hit, there might be some Andromeda sounds floating around in it.



Also Phil (or is it Paul?) Hartnoll of Orbital swears by his andromeda. Jean Michel Jarre has been spotted using one onstage.

It does appear a lot in the pro Hip-Hop market.

I think a lot of people simply don't believe that the Andromeda does all that it says it does. Like this thread about the lack of deep Bass sounds on the andromeda or the digital LFOs. It is one synth that seems to be the target of a lot of unjustified criticism and elitism. It also doesn't help that the Alesis brandname doesn't have a history or reputation that you would associate with high end synths.

The Voyager, on the other hand, has the Moog name associated with it so it gets instant credibility. Justifiably, I may add.

I think in time the Andromeda will be valued for what it is and not what people think it should be.
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sunny pedaal



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

upgrading the software and a further debugging surely would have given the a6 a better reputation too i guess.
it's true , it's a good synth, with some work it would have been the best.
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soundwave106



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kraster wrote:
Also Phil (or is it Paul?) Hartnoll of Orbital swears by his andromeda. Jean Michel Jarre has been spotted using one onstage.


Yeah, it appears here and there in a lot of genres, from retro bands to techno to the jam band scene. Doesn't matter much in the end, but it's easy to see how the A6 is still relevant. More as a niche synth but still, Alesis hasn't discontinued it yet, right? Smile

Quote:
I think a lot of people simply don't believe that the Andromeda does all that it says it does. Like this thread about the lack of deep Bass sounds on the andromeda or the digital LFOs.


The weird thing about A6 bass sounds to me is that, by default, they kick out a hecka lot of energy on a PA or a good three-channel system, but can sound flat on the more typical mid-grade 2-ch studio monitor setup. That's probably the 100-300Hz tone freq problems mentioned by Peake; what this shows however is that there's a lot of nice stuff going on in the sub-80Hz zone.

While you can EQ an Andromeda in recording and correct it some, this can be a limitation for some song styles but frankly a blessing for others. I have a Waldorf Pulse as well, and I can see using that for bass instead of an A6 sometimes. The sound is just rather different by default. I actually think of the A6 as "deeper" bass thanks to its low-end sonics. The Waldorf Pulse sounds more "punchy" and "sharp" to me, if that makes any sense. You can tweak anything to death and correct it, so if you have time, some of these limitations don't matter. But sometimes I don't want to work a lot to get the sound I want. In playing with a band, for instance, there's no way the folks are going to sit around for an hour twiddling their thumbs while you perfect "Noodly Lead #1".

Quote:
It is one synth that seems to be the target of a lot of unjustified criticism and elitism.


On certain unnamed forums, yes Smile But MHO its reputation seems a lot better outside these specific few areas.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been considering another variation on the use of Voices 15 and 16 for overall tonal shaping...

Again, use the filters in parallel. Use Filter 1's HP output at a decent level. Set the Fc to minimum, but add resonance to taste, and offets to drive the frequency down if needed.

Bring in Filter 2, but with no or little res, with the Fc to around two or three hundred hertz. This can act as a bass shelf, with as little or as much boost as you wish, via the relative levels of the two filters.

Sorry I can't just post a patch.
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synthetic



Joined: Jun 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've tried this. The extra filter somehow adds mud to the sound without adding weight. I've tried and tried but still never got a bass sound I liked out of the Andromeda.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's better at less snappy sounds, obviously. Try using Series 900 as a starting point.
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synthetic



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, that's a good example of the big bollocks bass blamo you can get. For quick, punchy synth bass, there's a $1,000 upgrade you can get that nails this sound. It's called the Little Phatty. Wink

Every instrument has its plusses and minuses. No synth can do everything. I don't think any polysynth can match the creamy pads, tweakability and modulations of the Andromeda. But punchy Minimoog bass is not one of its strong suits.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, puncy Minimoog bass is not its strong suit.

Check out Colin Chung's bass sounds; he's gotten more out of this synth then anyone else, though the European programmers were close.

Use (sparingly) my tips regarding V15/16 for overall contouring along with some of his basses and you'll get good results.
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purpurkatten



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Can A6 do this? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting subject. Listen, all who defend the bass of the A6, can you do this bass with your andy?

http://www.detsnurrariminskalle.com/

(This is not my band, it´s a band from Sweden. They seem to have no synth bass problem anyway.)
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amnesia



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that was a great video ,,,very clever
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sunny pedaal



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what do you think they use ?
maybe a voyager or a motm?
nice body that bass, however difficult to compare an a6 with a equally expansive monoanalog i guess. to me it doesn't sound like a virus or so.
although who knows?
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purpurkatten



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sunny pedaal wrote:
what do you think they use ?
maybe a voyager or a motm?


Don´t know. Sounds like some people discussing in this topic think it´s possible to do with the A6. It sure would be nice if that was true...
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soundwave106



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="klagga"]
sunny pedaal wrote:
Don´t know. Sounds like some people discussing in this topic think it´s possible to do with the A6. It sure would be nice if that was true...


I actually think that this bass *is* possible (with its own flavor) with the A6... however, you've got to turn a lot of things off. Smile

This sounds like it came from a simpler monosynth. The first thing I thought of was some of the synth sounds I've heard from Rex the Dog tracks, and his main synth is a Korg Minikorg 700S (not a complex synth).

So, if I were to recreate this bass sound, I would:

A) Turn on only one oscillator, the other I'd turn off.
B) Turn on only one waveform (probably the square waveform)
C) Adjust sub to the right level. It may be none, but a little might help.
D) Use the 12dB filter only in low pass mode, no resonance. This filter I think fits this sound better than the 24db one.
E) Turn the engine optimizer to its most snappy setting (important!)
F) Turn off a lot of the stages of the VCA env (the only envelope I'd use) and use quick pulse-like settings, ASR type env most likely.
G) Turn off FX and run the patch through the auxillary outputs (the Aux outputs bypass the FX stage. If you don't need FX or are going to run through external FX anyways, this is the better sounding connection).
I) Adjust mix levels and see how I'd like it.
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purpurkatten



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool, now we´re talking. I´ll try that. Have you tried it?
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soundwave106



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, a long time ago, I had made a patch called "Use Mod Wheel" based on similar principles, slightly different but it showed the value of turning some features off. Smile

I applied some of the principles below. I did end up using a VCF envelope for punch and I did use some sub; the filter wasn't completely open, either. The one oscillator was a square with no PWM at nearly 50%.

The result was this sound. Sounds brasher than the Youtube link, but applying a 1DB bass boost preset from the Waves 10-band graphic EQ increased the punch a bit and made it closer. It's not exact (duh), but I'm wondering if this is enough in the right direction to you?[/url]
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sunny pedaal



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="soundwave106"]
klagga wrote:
sunny pedaal wrote:
Don´t know. Sounds like some people discussing in this topic think it´s possible to do with the A6. It sure would be nice if that was true...

.


(well infact I didn,t say that, but nevermind)
indeed it's challenging the very thought of trying to see how far one can get to immitate that kind of basssound, however time is a bit too filled for me to really sit on that one. i'm curious though to all efforts and outcomes.
besides that i put a picture on the topic of cheapefffects for the a6 with some of the eq's i use , indeed good filtering/eqing etc afterwards is also very important for the outcome. also the (live) amplification etc attributes.
last remark: already best wishes for eveybody , for 2008 !
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sunny pedaal wrote:
already best wishes for eveybody , for 2008 !


Same to you sunny Exclamation

It's good to have seen this section of the forum to become more and more lively with time. What I've read and heard here during last year makes me think that the Andromeda is great synth, so keep it going next year, happy patching!

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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purpurkatten



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

soundwave106 wrote:
Well, a long time ago, I had made a patch called "Use Mod Wheel" based on similar principles, slightly different but it showed the value of turning some features off. Smile

I applied some of the principles below. I did end up using a VCF envelope for punch and I did use some sub; the filter wasn't completely open, either. The one oscillator was a square with no PWM at nearly 50%.

The result was this sound. Sounds brasher than the Youtube link, but applying a 1DB bass boost preset from the Waves 10-band graphic EQ increased the punch a bit and made it closer. It's not exact (duh), but I'm wondering if this is enough in the right direction to you?[/url]


Very cool, soundwave106! Cool I think you´re close! Why don´t you put that up as a patch for all of us on the patcharea, so everybody can convince themselves that A6 is THE synth - even for bass! Very Happy

Of course you´re right, sunny pedaal, eq and other effects play a part, but I´m sure you´ll agree a good sound to start with is best...

Now I´ll be off partying - Happy New Year everybody! bom party time! drunken
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Peake



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sunny pedaal wrote:
what do you think they use ?


Studio recording and mixing techniques, including EQ, etc., that might make a difference. Anyone here who has run any signal through a Manley Vari-mu knows what a difference such things can make.
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soundwave106



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The patch is attached. Smile


SWSquareBass.syx
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 Filename:  SWSquareBass.syx
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purpurkatten



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

soundwave106 wrote:
The patch is attached. Smile


Thanks! Very Happy
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jachinboaz



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

>Yes, the A6 is lacking in the "chesty" area you mentioned, for some unexplained reason. Low bass is easy, but the knock in the gut isn't.

just out of interest what are good analogues or va's for this knock
in the chest . . . . i myself am looking for an analogue or va with good groovy bass sounds . . . not sub . . dull etc but higher stuff . . .

pondering

waldorf pulse
bass station
Roland mks 50
Waldorf microwave mk1
Juno 6 / 60
or if i had the cash an mks80

any advice ? its for psy trance and downtempo funky trance music for the groovy basslines and fast lower end lines.I have my eye on the andromeda also but havent bought one yet and i am wondering if its going to be cool for this . . . i like fat and deep but i dont make music with really low end sub as alot is made for larger pa's and just swamps out the sound at high volumns . . .i did read the andromeda sounds better loud though !Smile

any advice would be great.
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