electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
  host / artist show at your time
today> Modulator ESP Adventures In Sound
 Forum index » News... » Apple Computers
Block diagram of the Mac Pro
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [34 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Block diagram of the Mac Pro Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

So there...

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More info: beep party! beep
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8932
Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WOW! 1333MHz frontside buss?!? (this mac is 100MHz!!! Shocked )
_________________
ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.apple.com/macpro/intelxeon.html wrote:
Performance also benefits from 4MB of shared L2 cache per processor. The availability of that much L2 cache enhances processor performance by keeping data and instructions closer to the processor cores. What’s more, the Dual-Core Intel Xeon takes advantage of Intel Advanced Smart Cache technology. Smart Cache allows either of the two cores to utilize all 4MB of cache if the other core happens to be idle.


Oh yeah. I'll get the bacon, if you get the eggs. So that's where the speed bump comes from, then. I should have invested in one of these babies instead of that stupid DC inverter.

_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys,

I have one of these (4GB 2x3ghz) arriving next week I will let you know how it is.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy

Excellent news!

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys,

Well I have the new machine, very nice.

I have some benchmark results here for Cubase running under XP on the MacPro. These are with a Yamaha 01X audio device which has not got very good drivers, even so this thing flys.

01X set up 24bit, 44.1, 8 in and 8 out.

N4 Sonex test 44.1 8 in 8 out


buffer________cubase cpu meter max peak_______xp cpu meter range
================================================================
64____________55%_____________________________30-36%
128___________35%_____________________________23-29%
256___________31%_____________________________16-24%
512___________25%_____________________________15-22%
1024__________25%_____________________________15-20%




FiveTowers


buffer________cubase cpu meter max peak_______xp cpu meter range
================================================================
64____________31%_____________________________19-22%
128___________21%_____________________________13-23%
256___________18%_____________________________11-15%
512___________15%_____________________________8-16%
1024___________13%____________________________8-15%


I have included some graphs for these tests with outher machines.

Cheers

Andy


audiolabs3fivetowers_l.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  67.24 KB
 Viewed:  346 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

audiolabs3fivetowers_l.jpg



N3-Thonex.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  99.07 KB
 Viewed:  337 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

N3-Thonex.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmosc



Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819117085
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151023

I could go on... basically you're paying nearly $1000 for a fancy case and their version of an OS. I can't see this as a good value for anybody who wants to run anything but mac-only applications but whatever floats your boat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18240
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 224
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks like Apple is using mother boards from Intel. The Mac Pro looks like a very nice box, but you can get nice boxes elsewhere too, like http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Subcategory.asp?Subcategory=7

By using Intel chips, Apple can only offer hardware that is at best as good as the competition.

Sometimes I think Jobs is a genious, and sometimes I think he isn't. I believe it would make Apple a lot of money if they would OEM the operating system and support it on the same platforms that Windows, Linux, Unix, Solaris, BSD, etc run on. IMHO, if they did this, they would sell 5 to 10 times as many operating systems as they sell now, and probably the same amount of hardware.

I bet OSX would then start to be picked up by businesses. It would be big.

UPDATE: Just reading the Mac Pro spec sheet. Do I read correctly? No onboard RAID controller? Maybe I'm missing something. Shocked

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Eggotrip



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Things to keep in mind about the Mac Pro

1) Price comparison to anything on the market with similar specs it is less.
2) OSX rules, and being able to run Windows either as a fully functional reboot or at ~70% speed along side OSX is a great catch all (via Parallels)
3) There are many good benchmarks of the internal raid arrays (0 or 1 arrays or combos of these)
4) I think apple for the most part has made better decisions than other PC makers with what hardware to support in their machines and what to leave behind. Being more progressive with hardware and their OS is why the creative fields have stuck with apple. Its a competitive advantage to their hardware, especially when bundled with their OS and other great software. At this point with the intel chips running WinXP or Vista fine, you either want OSX and its apps or you don't. So a non-mac OSX isn't needed. My experience since switching from XP to Mac about 2 years ago has been nothing but positive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
UPDATE: Just reading the Mac Pro spec sheet. Do I read correctly? No onboard RAID controller? Maybe I'm missing something. Shocked


AFAIK, there is no hardware based RAID support in the Mac Pro, which is quite OK with me because you can either buy a 3rd party controller card or use an external raid device wth its own controllers. OS X does come with a nice software based raid support though, which is cool but noone would ever use this without a high end UPS anyway, so the actual benefit of this is limited.
There are now 4 HD slots in the new Mac Pro. This is excellent but it is still too few for a fully functional large scale level 5 RAID with a hot spare. I prefer external RAID devices with redundant power supplies.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just for the record, the Apple XRAID is excellent. It is an inexpensive enterprise level RAID device with a nice mix of features.
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dmosc wrote:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819117085
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151023

I could go on... basically you're paying nearly $1000 for a fancy case and their version of an OS. I can't see this as a good value for anybody who wants to run anything but mac-only applications but whatever floats your boat.


The MacPro in the UK is very cheap for what you get, I do not understand your post!

The machine I got was basically £1500 cheaper than equivalents from IBM, DELL and HP.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
mosc wrote:
UPDATE: Just reading the Mac Pro spec sheet. Do I read correctly? No onboard RAID controller? Maybe I'm missing something. Shocked


AFAIK, there is no hardware based RAID support in the Mac Pro, which is quite OK with me because you can either buy a 3rd party controller card or use an external raid device wth its own controllers. OS X does come with a nice software based raid support though, which is cool but noone would ever use this without a high end UPS anyway, so the actual benefit of this is limited.
There are now 4 HD slots in the new Mac Pro. This is excellent but it is still too few for a fully functional large scale level 5 RAID with a hot spare. I prefer external RAID devices with redundant power supplies.


Hi Guys,

The MacPro uses an Intel 5000x based motherboard, paired with a ESB2 Southbridge. Now the ESB2 Southbridgae actually does support hardware raid 0/1/5/10 across 6 SATA ports.

So basically the MacPro does have hardware raid, but Apple in their wisdom have decided not to use it. Maybe in the future this will be enabled, complaints have already been voiced to apple about this situation.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eggotrip



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But like elektro mentioned, 4 drive spaces isn't enough for a real solution of RAID 5 or others besides 1,0 - so what's the point of using the hardware raid?
The two on board sata spots are meant for potential drive bay SATA devices, so there are two potential more but at the loss of optical drives. With eSATA does it matter anyways?

If speed is your concen than one great benchmark for the internal raid:
http://www.barefeats.com/quad07.html

And IMO this is the easiest implementation for a raid. Apple's Drive Utility is a great program for applying raid, partions, or formatting (versus the XP equal being a well hidden nightmare - I use my Macs to make FAT32 partitions because of the pain required for the same in XP, and its a MS format). I abandoned RAID after using it once before on windows (mobo hardware raid), but now when I expand by 500 gigs will get 2x 250 instead for the increased bang for my buck without added hassle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Well the hardware raid would be nice for us XP users.

Concerning setup: the raid setup is actually done in the southbridge outside of the OS completely, each OS would just see a disk.

This is how most PC Raid systems work, I have never had to setup anything in XP.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eggotrip



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh, I see your point. Wouldn't effect me as I wouldn't fat 32 my raid drives so that Windows could read/write to them. I kinda like to keep Win sectioned off in its own world where it can't see (and corrupt via a virus) to my other files.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18240
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 224
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would not run any computer without RAID 1 - drive mirroring. Drives are the most failure prone devices because of the mechanical aspects. External RAID arrays are great but a bit overkill for a personal workstation.

As for the price, dmosc was talking about building your own. I think his point was that you could build an equivalent computer to the Mac Pro using parts from NewEgg (or other supplier) for about $1000. Time to assemble is usually about two hours from my experience. I personally like building computers for many reasons.

1) you save a lot of money

2) you get exactly what you want or need - for example, you can focus on very quiet design for use in a music studio, or ultra graphics performance if you are a gamer.

3) you can easilly upgrade and add components

4) you can fix it yourself - saves downtime and money

5) you get a good sense of accomplishment like using a DIY synth

6) it is easy even for old timers with bad eyesight - the only tools you need are a couple of screw drivers.

7) lots of fun

Actually, using an add on RAID controller is not a bad thing and I would recommend to anyone running a Mac Pro, or any other computer for that matter, to get one. A good RAID system should be independent of the OS, IMHO. Better than that, use two add on RAID controllers and use duplexing - individual controller for each mirror. When you loose a RAID controller you can in some cases currupt both mirrors - very unpleasant. When this happens on a RAID 5 installation - yikes... Crying or Very sad

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Howard,

I don't believe you could make one for $1000!

I have had a look around for prices as an experiment:

The basic 2.66 woodcrest processor cost about $730 (If you can find them in stock), so times that by two and we have $1,460 .

1GB ram is $299.

So we are up to $1759 already.

Now add a motherboard, case, memory, powersupply, fans, video card etc and I bet you can't do it much cheaper than apple!


Nowadays its not that cheaper (if at all) to make your own machine, the manufacturers get much better prices on components.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18240
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 224
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are right, those processors are very expensive - wow. That memory is not all that cheap either. Most probably in a few months they will go down in price, but as it stands now, the Mac Pro is pretty resonably priced.

Embarassed

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2672
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I can run XP and RAID 1 on this box.
Is it quiet?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eggotrip



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its very quiet - but your choices of HD's and video card can impact that.

Mine is a standard config 2.66 with 2 gigs of ram - and I've yet to get the fans to kick up. Not much different than my mac mini in sound(without considering its off the side of my desk instead of on it).

Mac talk aside, I enjoy building myself, but I've never considered the method to be cheaper. That is because of the few parts that end up not working out or need early replacement.

I'll agree with the points of knowing how to fix it yourself and knowing how to upgrade. But considering I enjoy just having more uptime, than constantly pulling out the phillips - my heart isn't aching for DIY. I think anyone who truely enjoys computer video games should build their own. For that a self built Conroe system for about 1500 is much more sensible than the MP because games aren't taking advantage of four cores and you have the possibility of SLI.

Personally, I've given up on CPU gaming for the same reason I'm not missing DIY computing - consoles have more uptime. Less time fiddling with installing, settings, upgrades, fixes, frame rate issues, etc. Also more variety of games, its more relaxing on the couch, big screen TV, Dolby surround sound, and controllers are easier to learn to play most games (I like the 360's FPS controls, but wouldn't think traditional RTS could work). The next computer game I am looking forward to is Spore.

So for me a CPU is primarily for information gathering/exchange, music listening, and music playing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The actual cost of something like the Mac Pro might in fact also be "lower" than the alternatives due to the fact that Apple is prety good at tuning firmware and drivers and stuff so there will be less time spent for making this work as they are supposed to. I have spent too many hours surfing the web for PC related software patches and drivers, and if any vendor out there is getting it right that would be Apple.
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
So I can run XP and RAID 1 on this box.
Is it quiet?


Hi,

At the moment you cannot run with raid 1 on a standard MacPro running XP as far as I can tell.

The chipset does support it but how you would go about enabling it without help from Apple I have no idea.

It is very quiet, the stock 500GB drive I got is a bit noisy thats about it.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
You are right, those processors are very expensive - wow. That memory is not all that cheap either. Most probably in a few months they will go down in price, but as it stands now, the Mac Pro is pretty resonably priced.

Embarassed


In the Uk the price difference is more astounding as parts like cpu and memory basically have a 1 to 1 relationship between dollars and pounds, while the apple pricing is much more realistic, the base mac is 1699 in the UK and 2499 in the states.


edit: Actually the component differencs are not much more here at $322.66, processors 1,818.19. So I was wrong about that! Things must have changed since I last looked at these things.


Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [34 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » News... » Apple Computers
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use