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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Super Klee Sequencer
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Being Thanksgiving and all, haven't had much time for synthesizer stuff the past few days. Today I fired up the Klee and within minutes got this pattern that formed a bass line that sounded to me like it was straight from a heroin-infused drug den/jazz club. I ran the bassline oscillator(controlled by output A) through the 2040 clone filter, and ran two higher sawtooths (controlled by output B) through the 291 filter, and mixed a little DSC2000 chirp (controlled by A+B) here and there. I added the Thomas Henry UD-1 Drum Voice and ran everything through the Dim C mono->stereo, mode 4. I figured I hadn't multi-tracked in a long time, so I started noodling around with some other string-like patches and layered them on. I ran three oscillators through the 2040 clone, through the analog delay, then Dim C mono->mono, mode 4 for every track. I didn't put a lot of planning into it (couldn't - there were still a few cousins around occupying Igor), and could use more variation. I didn't think I'd even post it, but I got to thinking as I listened to it: I would never have come up with such a bizarre line if the Klee hadn't offered it to me. And, I've never really posted any Klee sample that didn't take any longer than five minutes to produce. So, for what it's worth, here's a minute or so of the first part of it, in all of it's Dim C drenched drenchiness.

If anyone's interested, the full version (five some odd minutes) is at my site here:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/klee_composition1.mp3

It's 5.39 MB, so I didn't have room to put the whole schmear on electro-music.

Cheers,
Scott
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh god, v-un-v, not only is that a mind map - it's a map of my mind... Laughing

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
p.s.: i'm really excited about that project but it's hard to keep on track with all the other ideas (like more filters for my modular...)


I know how you feel. I think I need more filters for my mind! Laughing

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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I know how you feel. I think I need more filters for my mind! Laughing


low pass? high pass? bandpass? notch?
i'd recommended bandpass...

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I've just started the process of setting up my own business


Business??? What business ?!? Cool

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Today I fired up the Klee and within minutes got this pattern that formed a bass line that sounded to me like it was straight from a heroin-infused drug den/jazz club.


Truly macabre sounds Scott!

As a matter of fact, that Klee circuit is beginning to scare me a little. I mean, you may have inadvertently created a new life form or something. No kidding. One day you'll be hunched over your basement work table, and that thing is going to start up a conversation with you. It could be evolving higher intelligence functions this very moment. Far-fetched you say? Maybe. But those creepy Outer Limits riffs don't sound like the work of a mere inanimate object to me. Just to be on the safe side, you probably should not go down to the basement alone any more, or at least not unarmed. . . .
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's mainly going to be in home computer tutorials.
I'm also going to incorporate electronics technician work, handyman, web design, musical instrument maintenance, furniture design and construction, landscape gardener, robotics consultant, and pedicures! Laughing

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It could be evolving higher intelligence functions this very moment.


Very Happy It really does seem like that sometimes - if one sets the pots just right, every pattern change, gate bus change, etc., just seems to stream unending possibilities. Other times, I feel like it's just staring back at me saying "You didn't tweak me right".

Believe it or not, I came this close to sending you the file to see if you could put some Germaniacal/MS-20/Delay/Moonwave riffs into it, but I ended up deciding I'd really not recorded the basic track all that well, and didn't want to put you in the position of trying to cope with something that couldn't be altered to fit what you'd put in.

I sure wish I had a recorder that would accept more than two inputs at a time. The basic track had the bassline, the drum, the occasional DSC2000 chirps (the bending high pitched notes that appear a couple of times through-out), and the two VCOs through the 291 - four parts that I blended into a stereo track through the Dim C. At that point, it's hard to predict what one wants when and in what proportion. I suppose I could approach recording with it using a sync track.

Off topic for a bit, but I couldn't help but start to wonder about a recent thread on the Synthi AKS keyboard/sequencer on the Synth DIY list. They kept mentioning a shift register that long ago decayed into unobtainium. Mark Verbos mentioned it really didn't have to be that particular shift register. The whole thing kinda confused me, because I always assumed that the AKS just stored keyboard info into RAM. In case anybody is wondering, this is the synth Pink Floyd recorded "On The Run" with on DSOTM. I'd seen the video where they demonstrated how the Synthi was programmed for that sequence. Anyway, after Mark's post, I checked out the schematic of the KS sequencer. I'd thought years before how it would be cool to run the note information through a shift register, but always ran into the fact that shift registers are usually FIFO devices - the output comes out the other end in the same order it's entered. If one has 256 bits in the register, then how does one address looping only a 16, or 24 or 122 note sequence?

After a peek at the KS sequencer, it dawned on me like a 10 ton 'duh'! Skip! My TH keyboard is already set up to get me 80% of the way there, so one of these days.........

Cheerios,
Scott
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting comments on the EMS sequencer. I kinda ignored that thread, thinking there wouldn't be any meat to it.

BTW, have you ever looked at the schematics for the EML 400 sequencer? It uses 1/2 of a CD4013 for each stage. Somehow the thing is rigged up so that it can be set to what EML termed "progressive retrograde". As I understand it, that means the sequencer starts improvising on its own, similar to the superklee. If you're interested, I have the schemos at my .edu account:

http://web.pdx.edu/~rfahl/img/EML400Schems/
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
IAs I understand it, that means the sequencer starts improvising on its own


But is it a random note improvisation- ala Arp Sequencer?

Thanks for the link btw Very Happy

A good example of random note sequencing (based on a pre-setup program) would be 'Raindance' by Herbie Hancock off his 'Sextant' LP (highly recommended btw Wink )

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't find my copy of the EML400 user manual (though I did find a bunch of AMC grEMLin photos in a long forgotten directory), but I managed to find this description in the analog heaven archives:
Quote:


From: "Ralph Karsten" <ralph>
To: <analogue>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AH] Wich analog sequencer ?

> And again for my two bits:
>
> So far no-one has equalled the EML416 (401/w 400) for a truly
full-function analog sequencer. Also fully quantized, the EML can do a 32
note sequence or two 16 note sequences. Triggers can be developed off of any
note played by use of a slider, plus *non* quantized CVs are alternately
available. The intrument features a variable hang on each note (switchable),
so that the timing need not be mechanical. The hang feature also allows
notes to be skipped or held indefinately (and a trigger used to proceed to
the rest of the sequence). The output is fed to a synth similar to the
EML-500, so the sequencer is its own stand-alone intrument. Of course it is
quite patchable.
>
> One interesting patch allows one to create a retrograde of the existing
sequence, where it simply goes backwards, plus specific notes can be skipped
alternately, creating numorous (ordered, not random) permutations and
combinations of the original sequence.


As I recall, the Arp sequencer uses some sort of pseudo random source and samples that to jump to a step number, which is quite different.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks great! Krunkus, ready with the stripboard? hehe

No perhaps we need to start a new thread? 15 pages for one thread is a record for E-M Shocked Laughing

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the slave osc uses a 301 op-amp. Isn't that the incredibly hard to find chip as featured in the cracklebox?

You don't have a pic of the EML front panel by any chance?

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I googled it, but can't find a close-up, but I like the look of those EML alternative keyboards/ controller. The box with 16 buttons and pots, and the 'note generator' to the left. Fun Very Happy
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DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope, the Cracklebox chip is a 709...

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes - thanks for posting those Romeo!! Not sure I still understand the concept behind the 400. Guess I'll have to study it a bit more.

The ARP 1601 random function, IIRC, was sort of tied in with how the skip function worked. The steps in the ARP are generated by CD4028s, which are addressed to form the active step (a method I much prefer than using Johnson counters - gives you a lot more/easier control of more advanced sequencing functions such as this random function). The same oscillator that makes the skip function happen by kicking the counter driving CD4028s into overdrive to flash past the 'skipped' stages, has its high frequency modulated pseudorandomly when in the random mode. With each sequencer clock pulse, this ocillator rattles the counter through a random number of steps, then stops and latches, providing the address of the randomly selected step.

My fabled models 3 and 4 Klee have had a different approach for single bit random generation. My idea would be to have a single step selected randomly by using selected Klee pattern bits to address a couple of CD4028s. In the fixed pattern mode, this would generate a 16 step repeating random distribution, and in the random mode, would select a non-repeating random sequence of one bit patterns. The trick would be to make sure that it wouldn't be too easy for any pattern to favor either the upper or the lower 8 stages, so one would have to work out a system where the bit that selected either the upper or lower CD4028 had a reasonable chance of hitting one or the other.

My thinking would be a logical function of several of the bits to determine where that bit fell. Because only three bits are needed to address the 8 steps of either bank, a portion, or all, of the remaining bits could be used to derive the state of the bit that determines if the randomly selected step was in the lower or upper bank - kinda like a digital Pachinko machine. Perhaps gate bus settings could be used to determine it as well.

Cheerios,
Scott
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey everyone,
I've almost finished the Super Klee Sequencer Stripboard Chronicles!
The third (and final) 100*150mm layout is proving to be the most elegant and difficult of the lot. I've been posting hi-res versions of each one as I go to Scott, so I assume there will be links on his site if you want to check them out. I'll also post a zip of all three here when they're finished.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:

I've almost finished the Super Klee Sequencer Stripboard Chronicles!


party! party! party!

Mr K, you are THE DON! Very Happy
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fonik



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Mr K, you are THE DON!

oh yessss! the stripboards are very welcome.
i have to confess that i actually discontinued designing pcb layouts for the klee. i will start again, as soon as i'm able to do double sided boards...

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:

i have to confess that i actually discontinued designing pcb layouts for the klee. i will start again, as soon as i'm able to do double sided boards...


Yes, I too thought I could 'have a go' in Express PCB, but after glancing at the schematics and then looking at the amount of other work I have to complete, well.... Shocked
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, it has been a bit of a job.
The SoundLab stripboard layout, which I thought was complicated when I did it, is a 110*150mm board. The Klee is 100*150mm each board! Three shall be the number of the boards, and the counting of the boards shall be three. Four shall thou not count! Nor shall thou count two, unless hence proceeding to three. Five is right out!!!!! Laughing
I did think about whether I could offer to do some mass stripboard kits for the Klee. With, say, all the cuts and wire links done. (If I'm going to promote this kind of masochistic stripboard insanity, maybe I could make some pocket money out of sparing some of you pulling your hair out?) Tell me what you all think. Maybe it doesn't make sense? Maybe it does? Maybe half the fun of stripboard is doing all those cuts, and putting all the links in?........NOT!!!! Maybe there are people out there who'd rather forget that part?
I know that after doing all this, and getting to know the project so well, the chances that I'm actually going to build one have gone up. Rolling Eyes Not enough to start tomorrow mind you, but they have gone up! Laughing

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can put me down for a stripboard kit is you end up having them for sale.

Chris
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

count me in on a stripboard kit!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can count on me to.
Maybe for 2 kits.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm amazed that there is so much interest, so quickly, for an idea like that. I'd like to check with Scott first of course, as I don't think it fits under the banner of "non-commercial use" of his circuit. Knowing Scott, he'll probably say, "Yeah, one for me too please!" but we'll have to wait and see.
I better get back to finishing the last board.

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