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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Supercollider
supercollider windows is dead
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majutsu



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

in fact, i agree whole heartedly
v-un-v you are a mod. can you delete this whole thread. it went haywire and nothing will be missed.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Crossing posts with V-un-V but I agree; let's not create a image of a SC/CK rivalry here because that would be quite silly.


quite right Smile

Right, I'm off for the evening. See you all tommorow Smile

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

majutsu wrote:
in fact, i agree whole heartedly
v-un-v you are a mod. can you delete this whole thread. it went haywire and nothing will be missed.


That might not be a bad idea but in that case it might be good to replace it with a "sonenvir locked up the SC stuff and we wonder why" kind of topic?

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nescivi



Joined: Mar 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: easing your minds Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen alerted me to this thread.
I must admit I did not read everything yet (I'm on holiday!), but I can assure you that the windows version is not dead.

If you download SC from sourceforge SVN you get the source code for all os's and there are build scripts for all three of them, so also windows.
Christopher Frauenberger last plans were to put up a recent build up on Sourceforge for windows too, as that is the more obvious place for it anyway.

The Sonenvir project itself (which is about sonification of scientific data) may come to an end however, as like many scientific projects, it was funded by a grant for a certain amount of time, and this time span is running out, as far as I know.
The development of the windows version of SC was brought forward a lot as a side-effect, as mister De Campo who is the main researcher in the project uses SC a lot, so he needed the other scientific partners to run SC, and as they mostly worked on Windows, he made sure that someone at the IEM developed the Windows version more. So in fact, the development was done, because someone was given the job, and now possibly will not have it anymore...

About the other builds on sourceforge: yes, the OSX one on there is outdated. Most people on OSX, who do not make a build themselves, download a Wesleyan build from a site (don't know the url by heart, but google and find it).
For Linux: you can make a build yourself, or if your distribution has a package for it, you can install it with your package management system.

To cut short: SC is still open source (and this won't change, as it is not so easy to change the licence now), it is still in development, and not just by mister JmC, though he plays an important role, of course.
The fact that some webpages are outdated is only an indication that no one has time to update those. The swiki has a lot of info though...

anyway, I need to go on with my holiday, and not think about computers right now, because that reminds me that my HD is acting funny, and I probably need to replace it as there is still guarantee on it... when I get back.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great, thanks, Nescivi!

I think it's quite undestandable that people get a little emotional when something as personal as a musical instrument disapears.... Good things this now all cleared up and we can all get back to business as usual.

v-un-v if you do "clean" this up, could you kindly leave Nescivi's post be as a clarification to others who might potentially get confused as well?

How large is the SC-Win executable? Does anyone still have the last installer? If this is a big issue for people I think I'd advocate petitioning Stein to temporarily it host it on E-M sopeople can get by for now.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do we have to sanitize the thread? Everything is OK.. really.. I can understand the emotions at work here. Very Happy
The one thing we could do might be to add something in the "Subject description" ...?
..And kinda repost the "new" SC info in a new thread..?

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nescivi



Joined: Mar 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, and this came a few days ago on the sc-dev list under the title from mister Christopher Frauenberger himself:

New Psycollider - heiss und fertig


Hi,

a new Psycollider is ready for download. These are the highlights:

* Psycollider is now all HTML...
- the Help system uses HTML files now (thanks Scott for converting)
- you can select and evaluate text in there
- one click HTML - plain code text window conversion (ctrl-t)
* Editor:
- all SC classnames are now recognised and highlighted in the editor
- no more grey line endings
- and yes, you can type the capital T again...
* Fewer dlls in the build directory (more in the exe itself)
* Recording works (see the win examples file)
* SwingOSC 0.41 java gui server (http://www.sciss.de/swingOSC/)
* AmbIEM spatial audio rendering

On the downside, the RTF support on windows is currently broken. This
is due to wxPython, but in its next version it will provide a more
powerfull rtf module that will also allow editing. In the meanwhile
you need to copy-paste from Wordpad...

The new release is available as usual from http://sonenvir.at/
downloads/sc3/sc3-win/ but is now also on sourceforge http://
sourceforge.net/projects/supercollider as a release.

Please report any problems - have fun!

Chris

PS: for all those mac users who are curious about Psycollider, it
also runs on Mac! Get the PySCLang module compiled (xcode project is
there...) and install it in the site-packages directory and launch
Psycollider from the terminal (pythonw Psycollider.py)... You might
need to tweak it a bit, but I had it playing on my ibook....
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nescivi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, yeah,

I also think there is nothing wrong with JmC making comments on Chuck author's claims about SC. I think this is a healthy part of academic research. If Princeton is writing academic papers about Chuck and refers in that to other audio programming languages and makes statements about these, then they should be ready to defend those statements, or clarify what they actually meant to say, so that the world of computer music may come to a better understanding.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nescivi wrote:
oh, yeah,

I also think there is nothing wrong with JmC making comments on Chuck author's claims about SC. I think this is a healthy part of academic research. If Princeton is writing academic papers about Chuck and refers in that to other audio programming languages and makes statements about these, then they should be ready to defend those statements, or clarify what they actually meant to say, so that the world of computer music may come to a better understanding.


Quite so.

As I see things the big fundemental differences in SC and CK as languages lie in the way they talk about things, not nesicarily what they are saying.

From that perspective it's indeed on the naive side to say CK is more "strongly timed"; after all anything that makes a sound inherently must have a temporal component (preferably a well defined one...) with CK this is just more explicid then in SC, it might be better to talk about *how* it's timed. Still what JmC seems to be saying is that with seperating the audio and the event stuff, then making sure the audio doesn't glitch would (to me) seem to imply events will get delayed instead of the audio glitching once the cpu runs out; I mean once the cpu runs out *something* will give. Having seperate threads for events and audio might give way better performance on multi-core systems though....

Great topics for debate, not just accedemically; if anything demands being "strongly timed" it's club music for horny& drunk teenagers which is as far as one's likely to get from accedemics!

I'd also realy like to know in what sense CK "doesn't handle tempo", my own code seems to be doing a nice enough job there as far as I can tell....

To be honest I think that at the time of posting Majutsu was simply a bit emotional which scewed his perspective at that moment, let's not get stuck on that; he said he was sorry. With SC and CK both being free and running on the most widely used systems I imagine a lot of people are wondering what's most suitable for their needs so figuring out how they are different and what those differences mean is actually of imediate and practical relevance.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All below is IMHO and being a relative noob its just some impressions really.

Spent some time with the ChucK manual. Notatioanlly it seems to be cleaner than SC, let's say ... less sugar.

Coding and trying stuff in ChucK seems faster, but lacking the GUI stuff (or did I mis something ?) will make parameterizing patches harder for me, as remembering things to type is harder for me than remembering which slider to use.

ChucK's (said) lack of higher order anonymous functions might mean that it's more work to code certain stuff, but OTOH such expressions can be quite confusing to read.

After reading the manual the "=> now" thing makes perfect sense to me BTW Very Happy

I could use a sabatical or something though to really get it going Very Happy

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The MiniAudicle should provide you with the exact type of sliders you need, Jan. They are already there on Mac and should be ported to the Win and Linux versions Real Soon Now. Awaiting those you could use your NM's knobs over MIDI (asuming 128 steps will do....)

I'm not realy sure what these famed higer order functions are supposed to do in SC or how they are superior to ChucK's global classes. That infamous comment is from a while ago and might predate those classes?

Personally I feel that that comment is quite old compared to ChucK's feverish growing pace and that much of it is relatively unclear (it's quite brief compared to how complex those issues are), I don't think it's wise to take it as a important source of information on ChucK, at least not untill it becomes more clear what was meant and Ge has replied.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Real Soon Now.


For audcle or for mini audicle ?

I'll be patient anyway.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think both but for simple coding the mini would do. The mini has this working on mac right now, it's a matter of porting.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

That looks like what you need, right? the syntax is here and I like how itlooks;
http://audicle.cs.princeton.edu/mini/mac/doc/maui_api.html

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
That looks like what you need, right?
Yep.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Kassen wrote:
Real Soon Now.


For audcle or for mini audicle ?

I'll be patient anyway.


Have I missed something here? Can you guys run this past me again?
This app is for Mac OSX and it's for ChucK that runs in Windose?

Maybe I should look at the ChucK website again??

ChucK for Mac OSX? Confused

I figured that instead of being in a very dark room with SC and not in the room with the Chuck'lers, I will miss out?? Shocked Very Happy

(sorry for being a dumbass!!)

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ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
fully supported on MacOS X, Windows, and Linux


silly me! Laughing Embarassed

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ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I think we can all be in the same room and leave the light on but I'm open for sugestions....

ChucK and it's two editors (audicle(advanced, GPU hungry) and miniaudicle (basic, functional)) All run on all three OS's. Both ChucK editors include the VM.

All of this is completely compattible with the other versions (or should be) but right now the miniaudicle on Mac is slightly ahead with the sliders that Jan needs which is due to it being very new and quite experimental.

All of these versions are guaranteed to put you on the bleeding edge of modern bug-reporting and it's quite likely you'll crash in ways nobody has ever crashed before. Great fun can be had as well.

It's also in the intro thread of theChucK section. I think it might be good be more clear to have this discussion there?

x-ing posts butI'll submit anyway...

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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
What is this thing with Linux? Why not a real UNIX? Shocked
Laughing


isn´t Linux a bit like:

http://www.gigmasters.com/ElvisImpersonator/ElvisImpersonator.asp


you mean, they both look like elvis, they both sing elvis songs, but one of them's dead and doesn't get any gigs anymore, just a bunch of people who can't let go visiting a grave...?

Wink
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