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gravehill
Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 49 Location: Berlin, Germany
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject:
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There are about 3500 known scales, only one of them (and its modes obviously) can be reproduced with the black keys.
Personally, I'm not 100% sure what to think of the issue of different temperaments, scales and microtonality in general. It sure is interesting to explore them but most often the problem is that if the listener of the piece is not used to hearing anything else than equal tempered scales, they will all sound somehow "wrong" to him/her. Interesting concept but in real life somewhat limited. _________________ For mind-boggling experimental music:
http://www.chaosresearch.de |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject:
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Antimon wrote: | I've always thought that all scales of the world included each other |
no, you couldn't, for example, approximate the sound of an indonesian gamelan on a piano tuned in 12 equal divisions of the octave.
the history of music could be thought of as the research about all the possible ways to organize the "sound continuum". Different cultures in different periods of time have devised very different solutions to this problem and each one, I would say, excludes all the other ones.
Antimon wrote: | you can argue whether scale distinctions exist in nature (the ear) or inside the intellect (the brain) |
ear and brain are both parts of the same apparatus of perception. the physical event is one thing, its perception is a completely different matter. _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject:
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gravehill wrote: | if the listener of the piece is not used to hearing anything else than equal tempered scales, they will all sound somehow "wrong" to him/her. Interesting concept but in real life somewhat limited. |
art history has, very often, been written by those who have moved ahead of average sensibility.
it depends on the context too: if you play a microtonal melody with a piano sound (that you expect to be equally tempered) it may sound much more wrong than if you play the same melody with an exotic flute sound (that you do not expect to be, necessarily, equally tempered). _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:50 am Post subject:
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Well, if you use scales and tempos, that's still common practice IMHO. So the serialist are are common practice, but this may not be - at least most of it.
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-343.html
(It starts out with notes played on a keyboard as a point of departure.) I suspect that in the future this will sound very conventional. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:21 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | Well, if you use scales and tempos, that's still common practice IMHO. |
your concept of "common practice" is very wide I would tend to disagree because there are only 12 common notes. everything else is very uncommon _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:
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thanks for the link Howard _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:34 am Post subject:
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Just got a copy of "A History of Key Characteristics in the Eighteenth and Early Nineteenth centuries" by inter-library loan. So far I've just scanned through it but it appears to be very thorough. Seraph, have you read this? _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:50 am Post subject:
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bachus wrote: | Seraph, have you read this? |
I was waiting for you to tell me if it's worth its price actually, digesting Tuning by Jorgenson is going to take a long while _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject:
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seraph wrote: | bachus wrote: | Seraph, have you read this? |
I was waiting for you to tell me if it's worth its price |
Glad to _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject:
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read the Glossary of Music Tuning Definitions by X.J.Scott
at least read about: Acompositia, Scale Fetishism and Tuning Psychosis
the guy is a genius _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject:
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But dang! I want a L'il Miss' Scale Oven and it only comes for the mac _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:29 am Post subject:
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LMSO is a beautiful piece of software but anyway, go to http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/english/ (a fantastic web site)
click on "links" and go down to " Software Free- or shareware" to see what's available. I would suggest Scala
a great free application. the de-facto standard for microtuning. _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:47 am Post subject:
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seraph wrote: | bachus wrote: | Seraph, have you read this? |
I was waiting for you to tell me if it's worth its price actually, digesting Tuning by Jorgenson is going to take a long while |
OK here it is:
Steblin’s A History of Key Characteristics in the Eighteenth and Early Nineteenth Centuries would be better titled A History of Arguments Over Key Characteristics in the Eighteenth and Early Nineteenth Centuries. I must confess that I read only the first three the sixth and the last chapters and skimmed the rest. It seemed to hold interest for the music historian but little for the composer.
Basically Western theorists have forever been divided into those who believe that inherent key characteristics do not exist and those who believe they do. And among the later group there is precious little agreement over what those characteristics are though there was some convergence of opinion in the 19th century both as to their reality and quality.
Steblin wrote: | The early nineteenth century witnessed the birth of historical musicology and with it an increased awareness of the music and ideas of the past. This sense of history has several important ramifications for the topic in question. For one thing, the arguments of J.J. Rousseau and Kirnberger continued to be cited even though changing conditions invalidated them. Also descriptive lists from the past began to have a tangible influence on new lists: many theorists copied word for word from these older sources. Schubart’s images in particular were repeated so often that they became a well established tradition in their own right. And now that a repertory of famous classic masterworks had become established, illustrative examples were chosen to verify traditional key traits. This in effect became practical “proof” that these traits were indeed “innate” in the keys. |
_________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:36 am Post subject:
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thanks bachus
I trust you so I guess I'll pass this one up _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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GovernorSilver
Joined: Apr 26, 2004 Posts: 1349 Location: Washington DC Metro
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject:
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dewdrop_world wrote: | But on a more technical note... Open Sound Control is a lot better equipped than MIDI to handle temperaments. In SuperCollider I can write a custom function to convert a note number into a frequency and implement any tuning I want. SC also allows fractional MIDI note numbers (69.midicps == 440, 69.5.midicps == 452.89298412314, 70.midicps == 466.16376151809) which is very nice. Max/MSP, PD, Reaktor also accept OSC.
So, what if Logic communicated with OSC-enabled softsynths using OSC and allowed you to edit with fractional note numbers, or apply a temperament table to the MIDI data?
I'm not holding my breath...
James |
I found this post while searching the forum for info on anyone using OSC-enabled softsynths.
Yes, I've been curious if an adapter had been found to bridge between OSC and Logic.
My recently gained understanding of OSX's Core Audio system is that all Audio Units are required to respond to both the regular MIDI API and what some developers call the "Extended Note" API. The Extended Note API includes a "base note" field which is 32-bits. One byte is used for MIDI Note Number. The other 3 are used for fractional pitch.
According to Numerology's developer, few AUs respond to fractional pitch - most just round to the nearest whole MIDI Note Number. But Logic's internal synths all fully implement both APIs.
Unfortunately, neither API supports more than 8-bit resultion for MIDI Velocity. |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject:
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Oh, please post your thoughts on it when you get through reading it. _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham |
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seraph
Editor
Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject:
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bachus wrote: |
Oh, please post your thoughts on it when you get through reading it. |
Alain Daniélou wrote: | In general the reasoning of Western scholars in relation to music could be summarized as follows: The Western Scale is not correct according to the laws of physics or mathematics, but, being used by Westeners, it is superior to all others. Since it is in contradiction with physical laws, it must therefore be the expression of some superior psychic law, still unknown to us, but which is the measure of genius and progress. |
I am not through reading it. It could take me years to digest it but it's an "adorable" book nonetheless
Isn't that quote sweet _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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