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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
My twin SN-Voice
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
ts correct.


Something is sitting in parallel to R53 then. Is your SN76477 on a socket? If so, remove it and see what the value it is then. Otherwise, recheck that wiring and pot. I can't think of anything else right now.

The mods you did are fine as you just kept the gain the same using the 1K feedback resistor. No problem there.

Bill
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para



Joined: Oct 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

its socketed so i removed it and got


IC4-3 to IC1-19 -

-LFO - 4.95M again

-ENV - 17.68M

-50% - 17.52M


IC1-19 to ground - 1.8K



i just tried to take some photos of the other 2 SN boards, they are all populated the same but i don't have SN chips in them or any wiring yet. but my camera is pretty terrible and you can't really make out the values well at all. i also tried to scan them but the mylars are too tall and let in too much light so they were just black.. if you want me to post the photos i can no problem but my camera is an old $80 (4 years ago?) 3mpx automatic hp. i should probably do something about that.

steven
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krisp14u



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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: MOTM panel Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has any one designed a MOTM type panel for the SN Voice with Front Panel Designer from www.schaeffer-ag.de ?
also is there any interest in a group buy for a MOTM style panels to get the price down ?
I will design it if no one has done one yet
cheers
Paul D
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chonald



Joined: May 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be interested in a MOTM front panel for these.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Front Panel Designer


Good program and great service. Good choice !
Bill
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: MOTM panel Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

krisp14u wrote:
Has any one designed a MOTM type panel for the SN Voice with Front Panel Designer from www.schaeffer-ag.de ?
also is there any interest in a group buy for a MOTM style panels to get the price down ?
I will design it if no one has done one yet
cheers
Paul D


hi paul,

i have just received mine and assembling everything together.
(the MOTM fontpanel)

Update (1:55 CEST): Photos are here at Flickr!
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I will - when i fixed the cablings - make the fpd file for anybody available.
Before that -- i need help with the wirings and with the Switches.

Most is clear, but something i dont have a clue about:

LFO RANGE = S4 == SP3T ROTARY ? Where to get it, how does it look ? Is this a 4x1 rotary or what can/shall i use ?

Switch PWM/MIX/NOISE = i think this is S2 ?
LFO/ENV and 50/20 and the 50/20 Jack ( or should it be a pot? )

Env Lock = Which switch ?
Env Resp ? == No idea.

Unfortunately i did not find the link to the original design whom where i was inspired Sad

So ... can somebody _please_ help me with some clues and ideas ?
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: MOTM panel Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

unit-sound wrote:
Most is clear, but something i dont have a clue about:

LFO RANGE = S4 == SP3T ROTARY ? Where to get it, how does it look ? Is this a 4x1 rotary or what can/shall i use ?

hello jan,

if you want to use switches instead of rotarys you would need SP3T switches (1-pole, on-on-on) for LFO RANGE and PWM 50%/ENV/LFO.

you could wire this switch like this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

i don't have the schematics here, maybe i could take a look at it tomorrow...

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Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Photon



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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: frac panel
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Here's my FRAC panel layout for the SN_Voice.


SNvoice.jpg
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SNvoice.jpg


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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

for anyone who's still in the process of designing their frontpanel, i highly recommend adding an extra 10k pot to the front panel for the attack-time mod:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

this makes the a-r compenent of the EG much more useful, ie. much faster attack.

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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine,

I've finally got my first SN-Voice together with your board and ran into a snag. I was adding the Mix A option on my units so I could play noise and VCO at the same time. However, you have the A and C mix inputs tied to Gnd via 100K resistors and have the front panel switches as switching ground to open circuit. I ended up removing those resistors,( R64 and R65 I believe), and tied the C mix straight to ground with a jumper in place of one resistor and tied the A mix high to +5V with a 10K to keep it consist with Tom's B mix scheme. Works like a champ now. Just for those deciding whether or not to add the A-mix....It's probably not worth it. The Noise drowns out most of the VCO signal. More interesting is adding the LFO with the VCO......if you run the LFO in a higher frequency, it makes a nice little drone voice.

Now comes the worst part....while trouble shooting last night, I was getting all sorts of weird behavior out of the SN Voice. Turns out my PAIA Midi 2CV8 is doing all sorts of weird stuff, particularly lots of noise on the CV outputs. No problem...I'll just use my old Elektor magazine 8751-based simple Midi to CV/Gate...oops, no output...it too has bitten the dust and I no longer have access to re-program the 8751! Looks like I have a new project to deal with, just when I didn't need another on the plate!
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23isgood



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You know I have the same problem with my Paia midi to cv. It has really messed up cv outputs. Anyone know how to fix this? Sorry don't mean to highjack the SN thread. Send me a pm please.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
You know I have the same problem with my Paia midi to cv. It has really messed up cv outputs. Anyone know how to fix this? Sorry don't mean to highjack the SN thread. Send me a pm please.


May I suggest you post this as a new topic in the DIY area. You might get a good response and it would be interesting for all of to see the posted suggestions. Sounds like a few people could benefit. Very Happy

Thanks !
Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
..it too has bitten the dust and I no longer have access to re-program the 8751! Looks like I have a new project to deal with, just when I didn't need another on the plate!


If you need, I can program a 8751 part for you if you have the HEX or BIN file available (Or what ever format it's in, just specify what it is). Rarely do the MCU's go bad but if you have exhausted all your possibilities, then go for it. Very Happy Right now we are working the PAIA problem. Luckily mine works fine so far .... (Fingers Crossed) ... Very Happy

PS: I will PM you about the integrated TH digital keyboard project. Your board that I am prepping for you is coming along well. Very Happy
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yea!! I finished my first of two SN-Voices. Just need to calibrate and add the envelope mod recommended by sneakthief a couple posts above. I agree that the envelope generator is pretty wimpy as-is.

Besides my mix modifications mentioned in an earlier post, I plan to reverse the connections on the noise filter pot. The way State Machine has it configured on his wiring guide has the filter open in the far counter-clockwise (min) position and closes as you rotate it clockwise to max position. I'm just used to the other way around. Something about old dogs/new tricks....just my personal taste.

I will post pics and sound samples when I complete the 2nd voice. Thanks again to Thomas, Scott and Bill for all their work on this great project!


[Blue Hell removed the duplicate posting, sometimes when the forum is slow this happens, patience helps]
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Besides my mix modifications mentioned in an earlier post, I plan to reverse the connections on the noise filter pot. The way State Machine has it configured on his wiring guide has the filter open in the far counter-clockwise (min) position and closes as you rotate it clockwise to max position. I'm just used to the other way around. Something about old dogs/new tricks....just my personal taste.


Actually, I will take your suggestions and roll those into my next board run and documentation. I believe you spotted a mistake that lurks in my pot wiring diagram. I like to "open" my LPF's fully CW myself. Thanks for that information. Very Happy

Quote:
I will post pics and sound samples when I complete the 2nd voice. Thanks again to Thomas, Scott and Bill for all their work on this great project!


Can't wait to see the pictures and hear the sounds. I am writing up a small sMs newsletter I am sending out with my orders and I have been including pictures of the various SN Voice enclosures and front panels that folks have come up with.

Thanks everyone for all your creativity !

Bill
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill,

One other change I made: I replaced the "keyboard" jack on the Noise portion with a switch that is connected to the input voltage lug on the 1V/Octave input jack of the VCO. That way, I only have to plug into the one jack and just switch the Noise in instead of plugging and unplugging or having to use a multiple. Just a matter of personal choice.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
One other change I made: I replaced the "keyboard" jack on the Noise portion with a switch that is connected to the input voltage lug on the 1V/Octave input jack of the VCO. That way, I only have to plug into the one jack and just switch the Noise in instead of plugging and unplugging or having to use a multiple. Just a matter of personal choice.


Sure, why not. If that saves the multi for something else. That reminds me, I really have to build up some multi's for my rig Very Happy

Thanks,
Bill
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bambam



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI Bill

I'm at the point of wiring up my SNVOICE and am feeling a bit confused when it comes to some of the wiring.
I have the wiring PDF and was also looking at some of the finished panels here like unit-sound's and am a bit confused about the mix section as the wiring diagram only shows that switch as being a spst but it looks like it has 3 positions on the panels. The seperate pulse and noise sel jacks also dont make sense because the wiring diag has j9 listed as pul\noise volume and i can't see where the pulse\noise volume pot is on the panels?

maybe i'm just a bit lost on some of the pots as well because of the different labels on the wiring diagram and the panel layouts i've seen.
I've figured out exp fm is cv2 etc but cant figure out what the envelope Resp pot etc are in the wiring diagram.

Sorry this probably seems really stupid but i'm just a little lost Sad

Brett
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm at the point of wiring up my SNVOICE and am feeling a bit confused when it comes to some of the wiring.
I have the wiring PDF and was also looking at some of the finished panels here like unit-sound's and am a bit confused about the mix section as the wiring diagram only shows that switch as being a spst but it looks like it has 3 positions on the panels. The seperate pulse and noise sel jacks also dont make sense because the wiring diag has j9 listed as pul\noise volume and i can't see where the pulse\noise volume pot is on the panels?

maybe i'm just a bit lost on some of the pots as well because of the different labels on the wiring diagram and the panel layouts i've seen.
I've figured out exp fm is cv2 etc but cant figure out what the envelope Resp pot etc are in the wiring diagram.

Sorry this probably seems really stupid but I'm just a little lost Sad




Hi, I will have a proper answer for you this evening after I take a peek at what you are asking. Just to preface my answer though, since the front panel designs are fairly open ended and at the complete discretion of the builder, I have no control as to how people label the controls and what controls are used. Anyhow, I think there is an easy solution to you questions so just hang in there a bit longer till I get back to you. Very Happy Very Happy

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Quote:
I'm at the point of wiring up my SNVOICE and am feeling a bit confused when it comes to some of the wiring.
I have the wiring PDF and was also looking at some of the finished panels here like unit-sound's and am a bit confused about the mix section as the wiring diagram only shows that switch as being a spst but it looks like it has 3 positions on the panels. The seperate pulse and noise sel jacks also dont make sense because the wiring diag has j9 listed as pul\noise volume and i can't see where the pulse\noise volume pot is on the panels?

maybe i'm just a bit lost on some of the pots as well because of the different labels on the wiring diagram and the panel layouts i've seen.
I've figured out exp fm is cv2 etc but cant figure out what the envelope Resp pot etc are in the wiring diagram.

Sorry this probably seems really stupid but I'm just a little lost Sad




Hi, I will have a proper answer for you this evening after I take a peek at what you are asking. Just to preface my answer though, since the front panel designs are fairly open ended and at the complete discretion of the builder, I have no control as to how people label the controls and what controls are used. Anyhow, I think there is an easy solution to you questions so just hang in there a bit longer till I get back to you. Very Happy Very Happy

Bill


Right now, as I have in the documentation, one SPST switch, S2, controls if either NOISE or PULSE waveforms are selected exclusively. The switch in the OPEN position will output NOISE and CLOSED will output the pulse waveform. This switch directly controls the MIX"B" logic control input of the sound generator IC. If you reference the chips data sheet, mixer section truth table, you will see that there are actually 3 discrete logic controls to select several combinations for the output. I bring MIXER "A" and "C" to the front panel on a jack so that other combinations can be selected via some logic input. The input are pulled to ground via two 100K resistors. This is all left up to the user how he/she uses these MIXER control inputs.

J9 is the main audio output of the SN Voice. The Pulse/Noise volume may be renamed by others such as Master Vol. or Main Vol. etc ....

As far as labeling a jack input "CV2", I say, name the function what it really is like "Expo. FM In" ...... This is strictly my opinion of course.

All the DIY front panel variations on this project are what may be the most confusing part about the SN Voice project since no standard had been produced. For example, some use switches instead of rotary types for output duty cycle selection. I use the rotary method, where Fonik may use switches as in his example for LFO range instead of a rotary control.

I hope I made some sense here for you Very Happy

Bill
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bambam



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI Bill

Thanks again for the info Wink

You have helped me clear up a few things, i think where i am getting lost is i was looking at the panel layout here

http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/sn_voice3_876.gif
Which seems to be one a few people have gone with but obviously is different from the wiring diagram provided. Have you got a clear pic of all the controls on your panel maybe Bill?

J9 naming had me confused so i'm clear on that being the main output.

I had sorted out the Expo FM in as well...just a naming convention difference there again.

I am a bit lost still on the mix section and the options available, in the panel i'm looking at there are pulse and noise select jacks which i'm a bit unsure of how they work? I assume these are the optional mixer selct jacks a and c at the bottom right of the wiring diagram but still am not sure what these expect and how they behave.

Then there is a a pulse\mix\noise switch on the panel i'm looking at but no pot to control the mix of pulse and noise? You mentioned that you bring mixer 1 and c out to the front panel on a jack but i can only see the main out at j9 so am i right in thinking that brings out pulse or noise or a mix of both depending on the switch 2 position?

I assume others have seperated the 50%, 20% and env lfo PWM just by using two seperate switches instead of 1 four position rotary which is easy.

S2 i'm fine with and i assume you are just pulling the ground from S3 for convenience and they have nothing to do with each other is that correct? I am wondering how to get a centred mix position on that switch or how to use a pot to mix the two signals before the output because i can't see one?

I assume that on the panel i'm looking at that noise CV2 and associated pot is J5 and R47 on the wiring doc is that right? but i cant find the equivelant of the noise CV1 jack in the wiring diag.

I think between the various layouts and mods discussed and from some confusion with this page http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/anatomyofthesnvoice/
I have thoroughly confused myself!!!

I feel sooooooo stupid asking these questions, i usually get a pcb build it, wire it out and its done and now i'm one of those guys that drives people who offer pcb's mad with alot of silly questions.....i'm sorry Sad

B
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bambam,
The mixer on the SN chip is not a true level controlling mixer: the selected outputs are either full on or full off. You can not adjust the levels (at least until Thomas H figures it out!). The SN mix switch inputs are selected with logic 0 and 1(5volts). They are labeled A, B, C. That is why the mixer is nothing but switches. You definitely need B. A and C are optional. Quite frankly, I think A and C are next to worthless, but that's just my opinion. The B switch lets you toggle between the noise or the VCO output.

I don't have Bill's documentation with me here at work so I can't comment on the other questions you have. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bambam - i suggest that you print out the 3 pages of schematics and get to know how everything is connected the the SN chip. simply consulting the wiring diagrams for the pots isn't going to clarify things very well.
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

antman49443 wrote:
Bambam,
The mixer on the SN chip is not a true level controlling mixer: the selected outputs are either full on or full off. You can not adjust the levels (at least until Thomas H figures it out!). The SN mix switch inputs are selected with logic 0 and 1(5volts). They are labeled A, B, C. That is why the mixer is nothing but switches. You definitely need B. A and C are optional. Quite frankly, I think A and C are next to worthless, but that's just my opinion. The B switch lets you toggle between the noise or the VCO output.


i've got a BCD rotary switch i was considering adding, which would let me dial in any of the combinations of A, B, C... anybody tried something like that? worth doing?

b
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbob - re. bcd's: uhh, take a peek at page 1 of this thread Wink
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