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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
mystery binary chip?
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dnny



Joined: Mar 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: mystery binary chip?
Subject description: the quest to random sequencing
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Hi all,
it´s been a while... I´m building this one device/instrument that makes the mechanical noise you hear when big relays go on and off... but i have a problem - i used to control my prototype whit my Jands light console cause i could get random triggers from it easily. now i want to make the random triggers whiteout that heavy controller...

so here is what i have planed:
i would make four simple OSC´s that would make the mystery chips four data inputs go high and low. And then there would be a clock signal and on every time the clock would go high (or low) it would read the data inputs and output to eight(or more) outputs depending on the data read.

the truth table would look something like this
inputs - output
0000 = 0
0001 = 1
0010 = 2
0011 = 3
0100 = 4
0101 = 5
0110 = 6
0111 = 7
1000 = 8
and so ... basic binary

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

but the big question is - What is this chip? I´m almost sure there is one that functions like this - but i don´t know what is it.

or if you have any other suggestions on how to make eight random triggers/gates please turn me to right direction.

the relay beater is just relays controlled by smaller relays controlled by darlington transistors.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

the transistors input +5V signal but that´s not important. if i could get some random signals i could then adjust it to be the desired +5V

will you please help me?

here is a pic of the prototype i had - it´s now in new box
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

thanks for your time

daniel

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Last edited by dnny on Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In general some form of an n -> 2^n decoder, usually those are cascadable in some way or another so you could use 2 pieces of an (n/2) -> 2^(n/2) decoders instead.

Some examples.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/26907/TI/CD4514.html

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/26915/TI/CD4555B.html

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/15535/PHILIPS/74HC138.html

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/15618/PHILIPS/74HC42.html

only the first one has a strobe input, so the others would need an additional n-fold latch to remember the data on one of the clock edges, like f.i.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/26889/TI/CD4076B.html

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toppobrillo



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the 4051 is an 8:1 MUX/DEMUX with 3 address lines which is all you need to cycle through 8 counts [0-7] it has an enable pin and of course an I/O also.

I use this chip to switch analog and digital signals, it's pretty awesome
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow that was fast.
Thanks Jan and topp,
i think i will go whit that CD4514 so i can strobe it whit Ken Stone's Psycho LFO
for even more randomness. and i also want empty steps in between. but i will take a look on that 4051 - hmm.. three lines, that would be one OSC less ... lets see.

Andrew if you read this - how about a stripboard of that loony LFO?


thanks again

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isn't it just a simple binary to decimal decoder?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Where resides this looney LFO of which you speak grasshopper?
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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it´s the link on my post but here it comes again:

Ken Stone's psycho LFO

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Where resides this looney LFO of which you speak grasshopper?

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Isn't it just a simple binary to decimal decoder?

Yes, as that would be an example of the same thing (with a few outputs left out), see the 7442 link above. The 4051 could be used just as well when 8 outputs would be enough (or it could be cascaded). Both however have no strobe input and would need an additional chip for memorizing the input on a clock edge. The 4514 (or 4515 for inverse output polarity) might be hard to find though.

Compromises, as usual Very Happy

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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

now that you started talking on the memorizing the input. I came up whit this kind of idea - if i could find the 4514 or 4515, i would like to see witch output is high - so what do you think of this kind of 7-segment display?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

what would be the memorizing chip to kind of sample and hold the data for the 7-segment display driver?

or in the case i don't find the 4514 or 4515 what would be the memory chip to add to have strobing function?

thanks for all this info

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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,
sorry for bugging you, but i have more questions - can't help it.

could i use the CMOS 4076 (CMOS 4-BIT D-TYPE REGISTERS) for memorizing the four bits?

and how about the "data disable inputs" and "output disable" how should i wire them to get the desired function?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes 4076 would be fine, just tie the input and output disables all to ground to not disable those.

And now that you have this chip anyway (for the display) .... the latched decoder (4514) could now be replaced by an unlatched one, like a BCD to decimal decoder (like 74HC42), which is likely to be found cheaper.

When you want to mix the cmos 4000 or 4500 series with 7400 type ICs be sure to use the HC version of the latter.

Some alternatives (to get all logic in the same 7400 family) for the 4076 could be 74HC174, 74HC175, 74HC273, 74HC374, 74HC377, 74HC378 or 74HC379 (all clocked D-type flip-flops as well).

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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you so much.

i will breadboard this, as soon as i get all the parts.

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