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Scott Stites/Buchla 291 adaptation
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sine_wave



Joined: Sep 25, 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NY

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Scott Stites/Buchla 291 adaptation Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I couldnt find your email on your site so I'll ask you here; are there any PCB's or layouts for your Buchla 291 adaptation? That thing is incredible!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what about mark verbos's adaption:
http://www.simple-answer.com/291.pdf

cheers,
matthias
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sine_wave



Joined: Sep 25, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From what I understand Scott's version is quite different.
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Stilling, Denmark

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think sine_wave is referring to this:

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=mutant+filter&t=10024

C
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sine_wave



Joined: Sep 25, 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
I think sine_wave is referring to this:

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=mutant+filter&t=10024

C


Yes! That's the one!
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Stilling, Denmark

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, Scott usually breadboards stuff (I think he actually had his entire modular on breadboard at one time), and then takes it to veroboard or similar, so there probably won't be a pcb-layout from him, but hey - if YOU need something to do over christmas...? Wink

I'm getting sorta ambivalent about making pcb's myself, because it means drilling a billion little holes, which I absolutely loathe...
Makes veroboard and a billion jumper wires look like vacation to me.

C
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sine_wave



Joined: Sep 25, 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
Well, Scott usually breadboards stuff (I think he actually had his entire modular on breadboard at one time), and then takes it to veroboard or similar, so there probably won't be a pcb-layout from him, but hey - if YOU need something to do over christmas...? Wink

I'm getting sorta ambivalent about making pcb's myself, because it means drilling a billion little holes, which I absolutely loathe...
Makes veroboard and a billion jumper wires look like vacation to me.

C


Hey C. Yeah it would be a good project. Problem is I'm still a beginner in regards to laying out PCB's from schematics, so the 291 adaptation looks a bit beyond my abilities unfortunately! Sad
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know the feeling. I've been doing it a bit more lately, and one does get the hang of it. Still, a project the size of the Mutant VCF would require taking a very deep breath before starting (at least for me).

But practicing helps!

C
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey guys,

It's been a few years since I did that adaptation. In the intervening time, I've come to the conclusion that only excursions I'd make with the 291 would be the input mixer, HP and LP outputs, and possibly adding another CV input. The VC resonance is 'OK', but really, the ability to vary the BW with an external CV sort of overshadows it, and the notch thing really could be done externally. If one used Mark Verbos' layout, then tapped into it for the LP and HP outputs, one would still have to build a small board to handle the buffer. On that board, perhaps one could put a couple of attenuveters on it for the CV, mix those and then use the original VC circuit as a master attenuverter. One could also put the input mixer on it. In fact, Mark's board is a dual, like the original, so you could have two in one module. Long before the 200e came out, the thought occurred to me to put three in a module (this occurred to me while I was playing with the Korg Resonator). Lo and behold, that's what Don did with the 200e.

Having that all out of the way, I can only say this: I for the very life of me cannot understand why some cottage synth manufacturer somewhere hasn't cloned the 291 the way everybody and their dog has cloned the LPG. I *love* the LPG, but people, the 291 is the very schnitz - it rocks on so many levels, I just can't begin to describe. It's the evil cousin of the LPG. My old page has the original samples I did, which really were done before I had the equipment to do halfway decent samples. I'd tear the page down and do it again, but I no longer have access to it. I ought to do some samples of it.

Anyway, this is one filter that sounds like no other, can be sublime, funky, weird, twangy, thwippy or so agressive it'll feed you one of your balls for breakfast and make you happy to ask for seconds. If you want your synth to leap where very few other synths have lept, build this filter. Whether it's just the stock original or has the little extras I threw in it, build it....you'll not be sorry you did. Even if you do wind up missing a testicle here or there.....

Cheers,
Scott
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott, I only have VTL5C4/2s. Presumably these would still work, but with different performance?
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, that's an endorsement if I ever saw one... Cool
Got...to...get...vactrols...pronto!

C
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Anyway, this is one filter that sounds like no other, can be sublime, funky, weird, twangy, thwippy or so agressive it'll feed you one of your balls for breakfast and make you happy to ask for seconds. If you want your synth to leap where very few other synths have lept, build this filter. Whether it's just the stock original or has the little extras I threw in it, build it....you'll not be sorry you did. Even if you do wind up missing a testicle here or there.....

oh my scott,
i have to change my plans for the next modules again... how many filter does one need? polivoks, ladder, ssm2044, wasp and now 291... i fear in the end my modular has only filter modules Wink
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Scott, I only have VTL5C4/2s. Presumably these would still work, but with different performance?

I imagine they'd work OK, with a bit of a different response curve - I bet it'd sound lovely. Thing is, the 291 uses single Vactrols, so you'd end up not using half of each.

Quote:
oh my scott,
i have to change my plans for the next modules again... how many filter does one need? polivoks, ladder, ssm2044, wasp and now 291... i fear in the end my modular has only filter modules


LOL, I'm in the same boat - I want my transistor ladder, my diode ladder, my state variable and the Mankato. And a Wasp and a Polivoks.

On my Dim C page, I have a composition that was multitracked using the 291 as the sole filter throughout the song. It uses the Dim C extensively (often externally modulated, especially in the second half - a combination of audio rate Dim C modulation, FM and the 291 can make the coolest metallic bang-on-a-50-gallon drum sounds), and the only controller used was the S&H circuit from the 266 SOU (another very kickass Buchla design, BTW) - no keyboards or anything like that. When the 200e came out, everybody was clamoring for samples. Somehow or other, the rumour got out that this composition was done on a 200e (wish my pockets were that deep). If, perchance, you've been to the Dim C page and downloaded a 9.7 MB mp3, this is the same one, so don't bother. Otherwise, if you've got either bandwidth or lots of patience, here's the link:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/dim291_266_2.mp3

9.7 MB. Yep.

I've got another piece I called "I Saw Santa (Through The Scope of My Heckler and Koch)" I've never uploaded anywhere. It's an admittedly psychotic Christmas piece recorded with sequencer, Dim C, LPG and 291. I think the only other person to have ever heard it is Germaniac, whom I inflicted it on last Christmas.

I just uploaded a sample to the Klee thread, using the 291 LP output in more of a standard, un-Subotnick-like application.

Cheers,
Scott
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: 616
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A little confused here: On your Mutant VCF page, you talk about LPG's as the basis for this filter, but here you say 291's? Did you do another filter I don't know about, or?
Not that it matters in the long run - I intend to build every filter in the known universe! Muahahaha!

Rolling Eyes

C
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No - this isn't the Mutant. This is based on the Buchla 291 Voltage Controlled Band Pass Filter. There's a page about it on my old site here:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/slsdiy/id11.html

Quote:
I intend to build every filter in the known universe! Muahahaha!


A noble undertaking if there ever was one! Very Happy

Cheers,
Scott
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep! Also not gonna happen, but one can dream...

C
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a Question about the VTL5C3/2:

is this something that will be produced for the next time,
or is it something that one must be afraid that it is no more available for a long time ?
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

re: the availabilty of VTL5C

you can always make your own, so it's not too big a deal Wink
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sine_wave



Joined: Sep 25, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
a Question about the VTL5C3/2:

is this something that will be produced for the next time,
or is it something that one must be afraid that it is no more available for a long time ?


Here in the US they are readily available. Yes, you can make your own but don't expect accurate results (response times). Thats why there are different Vactrol models... they all have different timing. There are some great pages on "rolling your own" vactrols. Just google it.
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Before I go diving too deep into the 291, I see that Scott's schematic page displays 291 filter page "1". Is there a page 2 missing, that will be like a knife thru my heart after i get page 1 breadboarded??? I dont see any connection points leading to parts unknown, so it looks complete to my noob brain. Also, what is a nice little inverting circuit for the add-on HP and LP outs? I have SO many CGS and MFOS boards piling up unfinished but my heart tells me I must try the291 first.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here you go, this one should work fine. It's got the Verbos buffers, the high and low pass tap points/outputs, and the input mixer. Note the mixer sets the gain to half - very important, IMO, for the filter. It can really get loud.

Cheers,
Scott


Modified_Buchla_291.JPG
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Modified Buchla 291 Filter
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Modified_Buchla_291.JPG


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numbernone



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

!!!!!Thanks Scott!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and Happy New year to all.
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synth_ollie



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the buchla lopass gate (cloned), but I´d really like a "real" vactrol vcf, so there´s the mutant, the 291 clone and I also found this :

http://www2.charlielamm.com/synth/vactrolvcf.php3

any more to choose from ?
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Fernando



Joined: Dec 30, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

>any more to choose from ?

I found this one recently:
BERGFOTRON BP vactrol VCF
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCBPF%20Bergfotron.png
It has an interesting vactrol control circuit in it too wich could be used for other circuits. And a table with the resistance vs control volts applied!
You can control center freq, bandwidth and Q (I assume "resonance amplitude" means bandwidth in this case)
Note he used Silonex NSL-32SR3 not VTLs.


There's also the filter out of this RJW circuit. It's very simple and from some samples (I think from Scott mods samples) it sounds interesting.
It's 1M pot could be substituted with a vactrol:
RJW Odd filter
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH.html
I thought it was a twin T filter, but I can only see one of the Ts... (some examples of twin-T filters below)


Fernando



PS My first message here, so hi all! I'm an electroacoustic music composer from Barcelona, Spain. I know some of you (Romeo Fahl, Scott Stites, etc) from another list and I'm very happy I found this group. I wont bore you with a presentation... see you soon. F

Last edited by Fernando on Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:51 am; edited 4 times in total
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fernando!!! Nice to see you here!

welcome

That WSG filter can get pretty funky with very little effort using a Vactrol. It was the first mod I threw on it last year about this time:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id16.html

I sure wanna try the Bergfors thing. Guess I better drop Allied a line. Haven't purchased anything from them for a while - they do send emails now and then asking me why and offering me coffee mugs and stuff (usually for a minimum order more than I usually am prepared to make).

Cheers,
Scott
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