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Crackle Box layout!
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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject: Crackle Box layout!
Subject description: finally...
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hopefully this is okay this time. here it is:

http://geocities.com/worthekik/crackle.html
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
http://geocities.com/worthekik/crackle.html

let me know if you see any problems. thanks!
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goodrevdoc



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 288
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow awesome! and i just got some of those 14 pin beauties in. Thanks a lot, choklit!
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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

goodrevdoc wrote:
Wow awesome! and i just got some of those 14 pin beauties in. Thanks a lot, choklit!

if you don't mind my asking, where did you get them from? i had a hell of a time finding some. thanks!
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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how come you added an extra diode? what sort is it?
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i wonder what this IC1 could be. the 709 general purpose opa? i could get them in TO!
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

midgetfidget wrote:
how come you added an extra diode? what sort is it?


Looks like the diode is just for protection against hooking up the battery backwards. Any old silicon diode would work.

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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks,

another question:

what about the values of q1-4?

I know there are 2 x bc547 and 2 x bc557, which goes where?
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goodrevdoc



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got them from halted electronics. They have good prices on a lot of weird stuff. 308 chips for rat distortions are ridiculously cheap, for instance. their stock list also says they have CA3080's for $0.79, but i called and they said they were out of stock..
-justin
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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

midgetfidget wrote:
thanks,
what about the values of q1-4?

my bad. i was hoping i could update it before anyone caught that. well, i updated it and i think it looks better now too. thanks!

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
http://www.geocities.com/worthekik//crackle.html


i also deleted the older layout to avoid confusion.
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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cheers!
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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built it today using your design, but i can't get it to work

i have double checked everything. The led won't even turn on.

the chip is getting power at the input pin.

the only thing i can think of is i've used a small 8ohm 5watt speaker, is this too big? maybe the amp can't power it?
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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that's weird that the led won't even turn on. led in the right direction? i would make sure the battery is okay, and all of the obvious stuff around getting the power to R2. you might need a different value for r2 like 4.7k or something.

i'm sure you've looked at everything, but at least the LED should work.
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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

also, you might want to try it without D2, replacing it with a jumper. if something weird is happening with it, it might stop the ground from happening at the battery. just a thought.
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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the tips.

I've tried everything you've mentioned except checking the led. I mounted it off the board so there's a chance i mucked it up. I'll check tonight when i et home.
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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got it working (not telling what the problem was as it may incriminate me Smile)

Finished it last night. This thing is awesome, like merzbow meeting van halen.

A couple of questions, the pot doesn't seem to change the volume at all until you almost hit the stopper, and then it's on full any suggestions?

And when turned on and none of the pads are touched it just squeals by itself, is this normal?

some pics


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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

awesome! sorry, i can't tell you what it's supposed to sound like. the squealing may be an error in my layout, i don't know. i added the volume pot without testing at all, so maybe this circuit just doesn't work like that (acts strange w/ outputs instead of speaker, maybe the pot's behavior is linked). i'm just not sure.

however, if you think it works well enough to verify the layout, i can go ahead and do that. then, maybe down the road, we can work out the little bugs that you spoke of. also, if you don't mind, i'd like to post a picture of your's on the layout's page. it would have a link to you somehow, if you don't mind. just let me know on both things. thanks, and it looks great!
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20480
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

choklitlove wrote:
[...] maybe this circuit just doesn't work like that (acts strange w/ outputs instead of speaker, maybe the pot's behavior is linked). i'm just not sure.


A 100 k pot is too high impedant to be loaded with a 4 or 8 ohm speaker, resulting in it to act as an on off switch. The problem is that when using a lower valued pot the impedance for the driving circuit would be too low (and finding a 10 ohm pot won't be really easy). A potmeter is not very suitable for low impedance volume control, the only thing that would really work would be to add an extra amplifier circuit after the pot driving the speaker - but that would isolate the speaker from the ciruit, probably altering its workings.

Having said all that you could try to use a pot of maybe 1 k or 500 ohm using it as a variable resistor in series with the speaker - the volume might not go to zero then and it would not work really well either, but it could be better. Finding a higher impedance speaker, in the old days they used to have 150 ohm speakers, would improve things as well.

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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

choklitlove wrote:
awesome! sorry, i can't tell you what it's supposed to sound like. the squealing may be an error in my layout, i don't know. i added the volume pot without testing at all, so maybe this circuit just doesn't work like that (acts strange w/ outputs instead of speaker, maybe the pot's behavior is linked). i'm just not sure.

however, if you think it works well enough to verify the layout, i can go ahead and do that. then, maybe down the road, we can work out the little bugs that you spoke of. also, if you don't mind, i'd like to post a picture of your's on the layout's page. it would have a link to you somehow, if you don't mind. just let me know on both things. thanks, and it looks great!

You might be right there, as it only squeals when the pot is all the way up. I'll bypass the pot and see what happens. Other than that it sounds similar to samples i've heard.

No problem, feel free to post my pic. I don't have a website, but like everyone else i have www.myspace/patstormont

Thanks for the layout, i might try your atari punk one next.
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choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just to let you know, i updated the page and your pic is on it. it really makes the page look better with a completed build on it. when i get around to building it, i'll experiment with pot values and whatnot to make this layout better. i'll let you know if i find anything out. let me know if you do as well, ok? thanks!

http://www.geocities.com/worthekik//crackle.html
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midgetfidget



Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Posts: 84
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK here's what i've done so far.

I fooled around with it last night, and i directly wired the speaker to the board, replaced the pot with a 10k linear pot in line with the battery as a voltage starve.

I read somewhere it sounds differnet as the battery dies so i thought i'd try this.

It stopped the constant squealing. It works pretty well for a 1/4 turn or so, but an even weaker pot would work better but I don't have any on hand. It kinda works as a volume control as well.
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crashlander42



Joined: Oct 21, 2006
Posts: 292
Location: Orlando, FL (US)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: how's this thing supposed to behave? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I finished my crackle box, and much to my surprise it makes sound. I was just wondering about the behavior. Pad 7 in combination with any pad makes a lot of pleasing squealing and screeching sounds, and pad one in combination with others makes sounds, but the others don't really seem to do much unless i have a finger on pad 1 or 7. Is this normal, or did I screw something up? Even if it is i still find it pleasing. I don't seem to have any constant sound out of it as was previously reported, but the volume does just turn the sound on or off.
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

crashlander42, your experience sounds fairly typical. Things change over time, naturally. That's part of the charm of these things.
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goodrevdoc



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know if these are actual 709's? The datecode seems appropriate, but i can't seem to make boxes crackle. Mad I've built 4 different versions: breadboard, perf, choklit's layout, and my own layout. None have made even a peep. Also, i'm getting voltage on all 14 pins. Help!
Also Happy New Year everybody!!!
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/search.php?q=SW709-2P

I think these are flip flops...

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goodrevdoc



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks mosc, that would surely explain my lack of crackle
-justin
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