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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » g2ools utilities
g2ools-1.5 nm2g2 and dx2g2 converters
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
I"m pretty sure One


http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-15095.html Smile

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:

to the problem:


see atached patch...lower perc osc plays 3 tones..40 clocks later the upper gets trigered by the link button



This seems to do it about right, it's biger than I wanted ...


cl_seq_001.pch2
 Description:
A go at the Classic sequencer

Download
 Filename:  cl_seq_001.pch2
 Filesize:  1.96 KB
 Downloaded:  901 Time(s)


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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool..it dont needs to be that big..we only need it for the one shot condition >16 steps..with link output connected of cause...
thats the only thing the unit provides.. a link trigger after the set amount of steps...

i changed it a bit arround...still expensiv 8.6% memory..

but its not a commonoly used feature..so its probably the better deal to have patches converted that really need it...

any idea to make it even smaller?


looks like this now


Bild 9.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  40.35 KB
 Viewed:  12496 Time(s)

Bild 9.png



1shotb16 Steps.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  1shotb16 Steps.pch2
 Filesize:  1.78 KB
 Downloaded:  708 Time(s)

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qfingers



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hyde wrote:
thanks q.

i know all the patches work on my Micro because i use them often.


I found the problem already. It's a NM1 file parser problem. I don't want to create a release until a few more of these things are found. Because there was only 2 sets of eye looking at this before. I'll create a updated release later. The number of bugs and complexity will determine when it gets released.

The problem was from modules being labeled with '[' and '] within them. The parser used these characters for determining the beginning and ending of sections. It's fixed in my version now.

q
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
any idea to make it even smaller?


Yes, when it doesn't have to be generic the synchrouneous reset can be made asynchrouneous and the 2nd switch labeled reset is not doing anything anymore so that one can go out, resulting in attached.


cl_seq_002.pch2
 Description:
Another go at the classic seq

Download
 Filename:  cl_seq_002.pch2
 Filesize:  1.72 KB
 Downloaded:  927 Time(s)


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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thats good 1.8%dsp and 6.2% memory...

With this building block most propper sequencer situations would be handeld..
just some aditional link problems with faulty connected cables that dont hurt on the Nm1 but on the G2 because it fires its link outputs in a different way... The converter cant see a possible dangerous connection that dont does anything on the one machine but on the other...would need to analyze the whole patch in detail..that would be overkill IMO..

however..with this block we get all the patches running that use the oneshot sequencer as a counter...probably not too many..but its good to have that in... thanx Smile

In some ways the classic had quite some possebiltys to keep patches small
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
In some ways the classic had quite some possebiltys to keep patches small


Maybe try to convert a G2 patch then to the Classic Laughing

... I think it's just the working around the peculiarities making it big..

I was going to test some of my old noodles, but the results tend to go over 100% quite a bit ... ah well, I'll make new ones.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would be good if you could check some ptches that are more likely to fit..
it seems that a few allready solved bugs sneeked in again and there might be a bug fix soon..so any small things not known yet will bring this thing faster to a final state...

About patch szise...

many functions are applied with fine tuners..2 in mixers with a pos/neg add to the applied value...
depndedn on the area they are used it might be good enough without them...

One problem that will be adressed soon..The AD envelopes that are used in huge amounts on the NM1 as a dsp safer have the opposite fx...

there are patches you get 15% down just by replacing any AD with the cheaper ADSR´s

many logic modules are wasting space because they are set 1:1, wasting half a module this way... problam is that the labeling of the modules sometimes gives usefull information that gets scrambled that way...

But by now i tend to rather ignoring that because you can refer to the nm1 original to analyze the patch..what is somehow easier any way because the conversion have to be bigger to do all the level matching...

So i prior smaller translations over readability of the conversion...

With the logic and the envelope fix many patches that got now too big will fit. Even with the necessary extra circuits G2 translations have roughly the same usage..sometimes even less than on the Nm1..
Its Just difficult for over 90% patches..

with the mentioned adjustments we save in allmost any patch3-4%...sometimes up to 16%..that was the highscore sofar..

Might be enough to get the noodles running
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Maybe try to convert a G2 patch then to the Classic Laughing

.


would be possible when you just transfer the actual switch state and arrange for overpatching of nonexsisting modules...

Sequencers will need models..tables need to be applied...
but i dont see why it shouldnt work in the other direction aswell...
The noise oscillator is easy as a model...
Spectral oscilator needs much less..i use the buildingblock all the time in the G2...
So better dont convert allready converted patches Smile

Would be somehow cool to have booth directions...
even when it would be just rough for the Nm1..
I would see such a thing rather as a downlink to the Nm1 to utilize it for extra voices.. It dont needs to be as accurate as the other way where an old lib wants to keep its sound..There is no much use for Nm1 users to have an other 1000 sounds on top of the 30000...and the speciallitys of the G2 are anyway not transferable...
Just a one to one of the modules would be enough..the rest you fix by hand.
.. so you just quickly transfer sequencer settings and sound engines and take care of fine tuning yourself as part of an ongoing patch process... Ok..a engine could do the job better... but i tend to keep the old one and than its nice to have extra possebilitys with it.
However.. I am happy that it works from the nm1 to the g2 allready..
even when patching on the G2 has many cool functions like the mutator and so, i still like the old editor for its pseudo 3d looks...its cool to feel free to patch it for fun and have the possebility to move to the G2 at any time
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
would be good if you could check some ptches that are more likely to fit..


Very Happy

Here is one fitting but going hoplesly wrong, on the classic it is very much on the edge of stability.

(*)


Seq-7-5-.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Seq-7-5-.pch2
 Filesize:  6.1 KB
 Downloaded:  916 Time(s)


Seq-7-5-.pch
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Seq-7-5-.pch
 Filesize:  4.62 KB
 Downloaded:  193 Time(s)


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Last edited by Blue Hell on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The question is why is it going wrong Wink

one bug sneaked in that sets lfo times wrong..what can have dramatical fx...
Its hard to track little things when something else is going wrong, covering it.

I think the lfo issue will be fixed soon...
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow..it sounds like a gang drunken elephant hunters Smile)
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

but found one bug allready..the delaytime mod amount is on 63 instead 64...
maybe i try to fix it...
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Spandex



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This version of the converter is amazing. I've got NM patches that I could never figure out how they worked... and it's making recognisable G2 versions of them. Everyone who worked on it is, collectively, the daddy.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
The question is why is it going wrong ;-)


Don't know, tried to fix it, but I can't.

I thought that maybe there would be too much feedback over the delay lines, but that's not it. Then I thought it might be a phase issue, but adding 180 phase shifts doesn't change it for good either. So maybe it is the different non linearities in the delays themself. The Classic patch has some audible evidence of mistrearment as well, but there it is OK - mainly sounding like friendly bells with an occasional rough edge - it could use a bit of reverb.

No its not the delay time mod either.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its kind of weird the bells are totaly gone.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, it's the pitch (self) modulation of the perc osc going that's out of control a bit.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made a rough fix and found another bug that has sneaked in...a big one..some mixers are translated 1:1 that shouldnt be..they all have a table applied...

but even when that eases the situation we need the limiters in the delay mod here...and i reduced all feedback levels by one tick...


seq_7_5__117F.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  seq_7_5__117F.pch2
 Filesize:  5.77 KB
 Downloaded:  685 Time(s)


Last edited by 3phase on Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:

Maybe this is my introduction to python, I'll have to find a MIDI file parser for python to start with.


Yeah, it's looking like Python is the new EM fashion!
Before the weekend I was looking at this, which was being discussed on the ChucK list; http://ixi-software.net/content/body_backyard_python.html

That's a set of OSC tools and a graphical library aimed at doing interrfaces for audio programing languages.

This stuff looks like it's quite easy and fun to get into!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
I made a rough fix


Thats waay better of course, although not 100%. This is the same sort of issues we'd been discussing before - it will not get 100% perfect with patches like this, but it's very acceptable this way I think.

I added a compressor and a touch of verb, thats doing good to it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I still think that there must be a fix for this kind of patches..

its not so logical that the nm1 and G2 have to sound different here...

Its just the question what is causing it..Had the nm1 some rounding that got removed to achive higher math compatibility in the mixers?

I realized that 127 pitchmod input varies slightly on the Nm1 and G2...
G2 is a tiny bit higher...something less than 1 cent over the entire keyboard range... I was very currious about that result....
eithet there is a pich offset between the machines...but without cv mod there is none... or we have very tiny differences here..but that would render the octaves wrong.. so maybe some rounding? on the nm1 or on the G2?

actually it sounds like that the G2 could be the one without...

Without this strange behaviour in overload situations Nm1 and G2 would sound the same...
i think all sound differnces just come from value handling..something is differnt on the G2... I wish there would be a little recallibration.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Back to the concept of Sequencer length >16, I forget what the max length is for the sequencer in the NM1, but just adding a second sequencer is cheaper in the G2 in both Mem and DSP than the logic attempts listed. Then link them up as they are intended to get the G2's seq. count past 16. Only more efficient if the total count is 32 or less.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Back to the concept of Sequencer length >16, I forget what the max length is for the sequencer in the NM1,

64 edit: 128 I meant Very Happy
Quote:
but just adding a second sequencer is cheaper in the G2 in both Mem and DSP than the logic attempts listed. Then link them up as they are intended to get the G2's seq. count past 16. Only more efficient if the total count is 32 or less.

Yes, but the solution was not meant for linking sequencers but for the situation where the link output is used for another purpose, like resetting or triggering something else after a while.

Still maybe this could be done by adding dummy sequencers, as they are not very expensive.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:


Still maybe this could be done by adding dummy sequencers, as they are not very expensive.


Exactly my point. It's only more efficient than the counter based solution for smaller lengths (<48?), however. The counter based method *is* nicer, in that it is fixed for all lengths (no need for 1 or 2 or 3 added sequencers, etc), so I imagine it's nicer for programming.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Still maybe this could be done by adding dummy sequencers, as they are not very expensive.


for a steplength up to 48 or so...but the step sequencer in the Nm1 goes up to 127 steps..

but would be good to have booth models
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