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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Nord G2 Patching
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In terms of keyboard controllers, I'll have to decide between the A-37 and the Edirol PCR80 -the only keyboards I could find that have an expression pedal input. The Edirol has programmable buttons and stuff as well, but doesn't have layer control. The A-37 has that, but is rather simplistic otherwise... hmm....

BTW -I placed my order today: I'm getting two G2s in april. Yessss! And I placed a preorder for two expansion cards as well.

Cool

Wanted to ask: what's the reverb module like? I read somewhere that it's OK, but not too great. Any comments?
Just wondering if I should integrate a dedicated reverb processor into my future setup (which, in my case, would be a Lexicon PCM91 -my all time favourite).
...Of course I don't expect the reverb module to be on par with something like a PCM91, but is it good enough to be used or downright embarassing?

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2 G2s! Congratulations! Let us know when it comes in and let's hear some music.

The reverb is MUCH better than I thought it would be. I generally hate reverbs. This one is very nice. It's very well suited for use with synth sounds. I don't think it would be what you'd want for use for final mixes and mastering, but it is really excellent to use as the last module on a patch. It has nice controls for mix, time, and briteness. My guess is the 24 bit 96 KHz internal data path in the G2 has a lot to do with the good sound. Anyway, you'll be surprised. You're right, it ain't no Lexicon, but still.

As for the A-37 and the Edirol PCR80, both good choices, but I like the action on the Roland board better. Just a matter of taste when I played them in the music store. It's nice to have all those controllers that the Edirol's have, but they are the old kind, not the encoders. With the G2, you won't want to use those I suspect.

Wow, two G2s will give you amazing capability.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A reverb unit for the G2? Wow! Is this something which can be used inside patches and not just as an output effect? If that is the case, then the quality of the reverb unit does not have to be extremely good.. just decent.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I remember you talking about that when I was in Norway. I've personally not tried that. Hmmm. what do you suggest?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I should put together some sort of symbol library for setting up patch diagrams.. A lot of classic patches can be set up on a lot of different gear..

One cute patch involves adding a stereo reverb before you send the signal into the VCF. It is also fun to have a reverb feed sent into a seperate envelope.

Stereo reverb is perfect for adding movement when you stepfilter a sequence. One might even use an envelope section before the stepfilter section and then play the envelope settings too. So many possibilities.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Reverb in itself is an effective element of synthesis, but for some reason everyone thinks reverb has to be used as an output effect.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good suggestions - food for though. You know the parameters of the G2's reverb are, of course, voltage and MIDI controlled. So the step sequencer can control the reverb parameters.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh! Great!... but it is possible to have the reverb stage other places in the signal path than at the output? You see.. if you use a mono signal from the VCO´s.. then you run it thru the usual path.. with VCF and envelope.. then you add some some stereo reverb to the mono signal.. then you set up two identical channels with a VCF and envelope section.. the VCFs get the same values from the sequencer.. but because you have added the stereo reverb.. the sound will move.. you then tweak the final envelope section in order to get max effect.. and the sequencer can also run tonal sequence too.. or you can play the sounds by hand or whatever.. I thiunk I have mnentioned this before. "A Scanner Darkly uses this for many of the voices and the sounds. The bass sequence which starts pretty much at the beginning is done this way and shows how the sound can move. -but you can just as well use the same basic patch for more landscape style sounds or pure noise.

Another cute patch is splitting the signal inside the patch and have the reverb handled by a separate enveloping section which for instance can have clatter and clutter from the reverb hit in slightly offset.. so like when you are in the late decay step for the clean synth signal you have a starting reverb peak hitting in .. and you can round this off during the sustain of the clean signal so the sound kinda crossfades. If you do this with a stereo signal you can have like a whole landscape of wild sounds crossfade with the clean signal. Hmm.. i have often done similar stuff with ping pong echo which hits in and then fades out.. stereo.. If you do this on a modular synth .. then you can play several of the parameters in a way that is pretty exciting.

Hmm.. I have even used ducking gates to pick out a control signal from ping echoes and used the amplitude of the ping pong stereo echoes for running the volume of the reverb feed up and down.. Pretty amusing to have ping pong stereo reverb instead of ping pong echo.. Very Happy

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great ideas! Idea

The G2 doesn't have a stereo reverb, you can, of course, use two modules. Seems like you might enjoy a G2 in your life.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK? So I can just set up this as if it was am old style modular? Just add units for every channel and build it from scratch? I guess picking up some kind of control signal from somewhere and using this for varying the reverb parameters should do the job of a stereo reverb.. hmm.. is it possible to set up l "walking notch" filters? That is pretty effective if applied to broadband noisy stereo sounds.
yeah... I guess A G2 is high up on the list for XMAS! Hmm.. but the actual price of all the small extras is high.. sigh..

I forgot to add that limiters set up to beef up the volume dips in the stepfiltered signal.. and also for controlling the peaks.. in some sof those patches I mentioned in that other post.. is a must..

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Wow, two G2s will give you amazing capability.


Yes. In fact, they will replace my entire existing live setup, outboard FX included. That's why I asked about the reverbs. After much learning and planning over the last 2 months, I came to the conclusion that two G2s and 2 adjacent midi-keyboards will give me all I need for my future live projects, but with way more versatility and far less bulk. It hopefully will enable me to get some musical things finally off the ground which I have been trying to do for years.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm.. you guys are really making me interested in the Nord gear. i was wondering about perhaps getting the old modular or the micro.. or several of those.. These could probably be great subsitutes for traditional modular synths.. and I am not that used to polyphony in a synth. I guess I sold test these instruments first and try to figure out how i can use them.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The micro has a lot, for sure. I think Shoshin has it right, though; the G2 is a paradigm shift. The built-in memory based operators, reverb and delay, are nice, but MIDI processing and inter-slot routing are key. The control surface is way ahead of anything else.

Those limiters, compressors, envelope followers, slew limiters, and all that stuff are all there, and completely voltage/midi controllable, and the architecture is totally open for you to design.

Walking notch filters? What are those?
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
MIDI processing and inter-slot routing are key. The control surface is way ahead of anything else.


Yes -the more I mentally went over the possibilities combined with the accessibility provided by the UI, the more I saw this limitless universe of potential. It's hard to think about something you can't do on a G2. Step-sequencers, FX, synths, physical models, audio mixers...

Also, the G2 potential as well as Clavia's long-term product support will mean that it's going to be worthwile to dig into this machine for some years to come. I mean: They manufactured and supported the first modular for six years. Which other company does this?

I'm sick of buying gear that gets replaced by "the next model" within a year or so, with support dwindling shortly thereafter -just about when you've become comfortable with it... you hear me, Yamaha?

As I said, I normally always "try before I buy", but my order went out 2 days ago Cool. I know I won't be disappointed.

BTW: I'm getting A-37's too.

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egw



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, two G2s and two A37s - what a setup!
Why not use an engine as the second G2?
You only have two hands, so you can only play a few knobs and keyboards at once.

shoshin wrote:
I'm sick of buying gear that gets replaced by "the next model" within a year or so, with support dwindling shortly thereafter -just about when you've become comfortable with it... you hear me, Yamaha?


Yes, that's absolutely been my experience with Yamaha. Roland and Korg are slightly better. I only buy stuff from these companies when there's no other choice.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Why not use an engine as the second G2?
You only have two hands, so you can only play a few knobs and keyboards at once.


I thought about that. But since every parameter of a patch is accessible through the UI of the keyboard-G2, that means that you need the computer only for hooking up modules and can do most of the fine-tuning on the panel as you play, to make it fit with your way of playing.

I can't envision doing this cumbersome fine-tuning work while always having to grab the mouse for parameter tweaking (as I would have to do when using a G2-engine-module).

Plus: I need to feel totally in control when playing. I need to see what's going on, which patch is where, what are the settings, morph ranges and so on. Visual feedback is crucial for me, especially when playing complex multilayered stuff.

not to forget: a keyboard-G2 just looks better on stage Cool

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

Here's a quick recording I just made of one of the factory demo patches called BriteTine.
I tried clicking on the Download link and get a screen of funny characters. Should I right-click instead?

Cheers,

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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry about that. Right now there is a problem on our server that affect Mozilla only. It's ok on IE. Here's how you play an mp3, until we get this fixed.

Right Click on the link...
It will come up with a Save file as Screen. The default name will be download.php. Change this to some file name with an .mp3 extension.

Sorry about this problem. Or Scandinavian administrator/editor has disappeared into the hills on some sort of exotic return-to-nature vacation in the snow...
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cebec



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:57 pm    Post subject: random Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what am i supposed to use to generate random pulses and control signals a la the G1's modules until they (hopefully) add them to the G2s library?
got any recommendations?

also, what happened to the list? is anyone else receiving messages/digests?

thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I heard from Rob that the list is having technical problems.

I'm not the best person to answer the question about the random signals. I'd guess you can use a sample and hold modules on noise, and use a lo pass filter on noise.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

shoshin wrote:
In terms of keyboard controllers, I'll have to decide between the A-37 and the Edirol PCR80 -the only keyboards I could find that have an expression pedal input.
On the AMPFEA music-bar list, someone asked about the MIDI spec. It seems that a particular Edirol controller implements the note-off function using the "note-on message with zero velocity" method. That's legal within the MIDI spec but it cuts out the possibility of using the note-off velocity value. Not many people seem to want or use it, but I thought you should be made aware of this. If note-off is implemented this way on one Edirol controller, it might be a safe bet to assume all their controllers do it in that manner, too.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

djfoxyfox wrote:
It seems that a particular Edirol controller implements the note-off function using the "note-on message with zero velocity" method.


Yikes, that's too bad. Most synths don't use this, that is true, but I just checked the G2 and it does. This means it's possbile to do things like make the release time controlled by how quickly you release the key.

Thanks for pointing this out.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: random Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

simulacreant wrote:
what am i supposed to use to generate random pulses and control signals a la the G1's modules until they (hopefully) add them to the G2s library?
got any recommendations?
!


Random Pulse Generator


The G2 lfoA & lfoC have a random wave that behaves like Sampled noise at the LFO rate. Combining as shown with one of the Modulated Pulse generators, will duplicate the old Random Pulse module. The LFO rate controls 'density' and the pulse duration knob allows fine-tuning of the pulse width bias.
It is more expensive DSP wise than the dedicated G1 module (2.2%/0.31%) but provides both clocked random voltage and random pulse.
The patch was built just for demonstration, but makes a nice water feature noise.
I am looking forward to the DX7 style modules, having rediscovered the joy of FM. The G2 version does not seem to suffer from the 'squashed' nature of the original Yamaha implementation. Same with Physical Modelling, just seems to sound better on the G2. I had previously written off Physical Modelling as 'the most hauntingly realistic cheesy sounds available' but the G2 (and that great PMrecorder patch) have changed my mind.


waterfeature.pch2
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random pulse patch

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cebec



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: G2 Inputs/Gain Staging Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't quote Dave Peck's original post to the list, today/yesterday, but to paraphrase:

any signal, but the weakest, when patched to the line ins, causes significant distortion/clipping and must be 'padded' at the input/boosted at the output, and all manner of other work arounds must be attempted in many cases to achieve max. signal to noise ratio.

i'm concerned about this since he suggests it may be a hardware/gain staging issue and one that was not adequately rectified from the first generation Modulars, of which I was an owner, until recently.

Has anyone else been having a difficult time with the line ins on the G2? Have you devised any workarounds and the like for ensuring max. quality?
My G2 is on it's way, which is why I can't experiment, myself.
Thanks for any insight...
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