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nsiter
Joined: Mar 21, 2007 Posts: 15 Location: suomi
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:24 am Post subject:
CGS vs MFOS |
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Hello.
I am new here. I introduce myself first then get to the subject.
My name is Nathan Siter. I am an american transplanted to Finland a little over 7 years ago. I am now just shy of 30 years old. I have been involved with music since my early teens, making electronic music since I was around 17 or 18, but more seriously since I turned 20 and discovered "techno". I have a smallish studio based around a windows PC running LOGIC and REAKTOR with an RME hdsp9652 (or whatever the numbers were I cant remember.) Most recently I have started down the PD road. I have a bit of hardware: KORG polysix, ROLAND jp8000, jv2080, R8mkII, an echoplex, various guitar stompboxes, 14channel mixer, and a Fender Jazzmaster. I have released one 12'' on Zhark Berlin and have a forth coming full length cd on the new "ambient" Belgian label PLAGUE RECORDINGS which is currently in Post production (mastering is 98percent finished).
I only recently started with electronics (my father is/was really into it with HAM radio and an electrical engineer for 40years), I am currently constructing a MFOS WSG. I have been wanting a modular synth for many years now, drooling over those "stories" of people getting old synths from basements and universities for next to nothing. Sadly those days are gone and the only way (at least at this point- I am still working on my masters of Architecture) to afford one will be to build one myself thanks to jacked up prices because of supply and demand and these "rich collectors" buying up EML, EMS, Moog, etc.
So I am researching possible PCB board supplier for DiY, hence why I am here. I have so far found names most everyone here is familar with: MOTM, dotcom, Oakley, Blacet, EFM, MFOS, CGS and Tellun. Perhaps I missed a few but anyways. I would like to go with the MOTM size as I like the ideas of bigger knobs and 1/4'' jacks. After a few years of knob twisting those tiny VSTi knobs with a mouse, I want something I can handle with the thick winter gloves needed to keep warm in the -30c winters here.
In choosing which PCBs to start with I have come down to two suppliers: either CGS or MFOS. EFM was on this list, but nothing against this TOMG as I havent dealt with him or know him: if he has had troubles in the past supplying to people, I can't risk the money at this time, regardless of the quality of his products, nor if it was directly his fault or not (I read he was very sick). Perhaps once I establish a few units and get a bit more cash flow (read when i graduate, my money will double or triple over night!) I can check out his EMS filters etc. Also Oakley and MoTM look to be the high end of the DIY but that brings high cost as well, best left to a bit later.
So back to the subject: CGS vs MFOS. I have read good stuff about both suppliers. honest, good documentation, good products, for someone on a budget, etc. CGS seems to be a bit cheaper than MFOS. For example his Utility LFO is 6usd while MFOS's is 14usd. Similar price ratio between the VCOs as well. I am basically looking for comparison based off of past experience from people who have built from BOTH suppliers. I am interested also in total cost comparison because even though resistors are nickel dime they start to add up and 20 or so usd difference in price over several units is a big difference at this point. Although if the higher total price is of better quality or has a better feature, then perhaps the price difference is worth it.
Thanks for your time and help in advance.
Nathan Siter |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:11 am Post subject:
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First Hello. You've found the right place. I cannot comment on CGS, but I would like to get some stuff in the future very interesting circuits. MFOS is great. But, I think in the end you will find yourself wanting a combination of many designs. There are a lot out there. Start with a basic system. OSC, LFO, AR, VCA, Filter or try the Sound Lab. Believe me before you know it you'll have a list of stuff a mile long you want to do. Ha money, money is not a option. I don't have any money and I can't stop buying stuff. I have 5 modules that just need a PSU and I just bought my fourth guitar. What was I thinking.
your in trouble now! _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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nsiter
Joined: Mar 21, 2007 Posts: 15 Location: suomi
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:30 am Post subject:
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ok thanks. I did already know about the basic setup as I have done a bit of synthesis on reaktor and pd. Good that you mention the Sound Lab. That is my project number two before hitting the full on modular. I was hoping to get that pcb along with some modular pcbs from MFOS at the same time in order to cut down on shipping (a bit. every 5usd helps) (provided that I go with MFOS over CGS to start) |
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fluxmonkey
Joined: Jun 24, 2005 Posts: 708 Location: cleve
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:36 am Post subject:
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both ray and ken put out great product, as well as being conscientious w/ ordering and support. They also seem like genuinely good folks, always a pleasure to deal with, which counts in my book. I have numerous modules from both (and more in the pipeline), and there’s absolutely no reason to limit yourself to one or the other.
Historically, MFOS has focused on th bread&butter modules needed for a basic system, and now has a full compliment of the core modules (LFO Noise VCO VCA VCF(x2) ADSR Sequencer Mixer)… and starting to get into the more specialized stuff like the new Phaser. Ken originally focused on some more original and/or unusual designs, but he’s been introducing more of the traditional modules (always with his own special twist)... he’s working on an envelope generator, whish will pretty much round out the complete list of basics. To my mind, there’s a “west coast” influence on Ken’s approach to synthesis, so you might see them as them as the Moog/Serge dyad of DIY.
With all that said, if you are just starting on DIY and you want to start w/ one, I think MFOS might be a better starting point. The modules are generally lower parts count, PCBs are more spacious, and the complexity a bit less. Ray goes into great detail on stuff like panel wiring and layouts, while Ken often presents building blocks in a more open ended way... lots of flexibility, but not as much hand-holding for beginners.
my $0.02
bbob
www.fluxmonkey.com |
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nsiter
Joined: Mar 21, 2007 Posts: 15 Location: suomi
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:44 am Post subject:
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Cool. This is exactly what I am looking for. Thanks much. |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject:
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i have both CGS and MFOS based modules. and that's one point: not CGS vs MFOS but CGS & MFOS
MFOS has all the standard modules with really great documentation. if you're looking for something _special_ than CGS is really a choice. ken stones designs are extraordinary and you will see circuits that you won't see anywhere else (B-n-Tic VCF/O, Wavemultiplier, Suboscillator...)
just my 2 pence _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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goodrevdoc
Joined: Sep 11, 2006 Posts: 288 Location: Philadelphia, PA
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject:
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to electro-music.com!
As far as the comparison goes, i have to agree. The MFOS stuff is probably easier to get started with, but once you have a few you'll want to round out with modules from everywhere. 2 more cents for the collection...
-justin |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | not CGS vs MFOS but CGS & MFOS |
Very good point, indeed! They play very well together, actually. I'd recommend getting a good base going with the MFOS and start frosting the cake with CGS (and more MFOS, too).
Of course, some Fonik stuff might work well. A resonator, for example. Now if Fonik would do a PCB for the baby seq, that would be awesome (check out the cool samples he did with that in the resonator thread).
Fonik, I think that would be a great board to do. A no-muss sequencer that delivers.
Cheers,
Scott |
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nsiter
Joined: Mar 21, 2007 Posts: 15 Location: suomi
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:08 am Post subject:
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CGs and MFOS. ok point taken.
I really meant that I guess, as I plan to use modules from whatever supplier if it fits my needs.
I will do just this: start with MFOS and then do the cgs when the time comes. havent heard of fonik, will check them out as well.
can anyone suggest a good midi to cv gate? I saw one at elby designs, but once you tack together all the parts and separate kits, it gets to be pretty expensive, almost as much as a MOTM prebuilt..
ALSO what type of power supply should i look into? CGS seems to have one that is pretty reasonably priced and can be used for a bunch of different brands... but it is fairly new, therefore there are a few mistakes and prob not much documentation (as previously stated about CGS products)
thanks for all the help. |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:22 am Post subject:
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nsiter wrote: | havent heard of fonik, will check them out as well. |
check _us_ out, hehe!
i'm just a DIYer as you are. no PCBs for sale (except the PS3100 PCB for this forum), just some PCB layouts i made for myself... _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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nsiter
Joined: Mar 21, 2007 Posts: 15 Location: suomi
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:31 am Post subject:
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heh, oh FONIK. duh. |
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softfin
Joined: Oct 11, 2006 Posts: 271 Location: Far in the north
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:43 am Post subject:
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I've built some CGS modules and have no bad words to say about them. They're cheap and reliable.
Additionally you can always do DIY projects on stripboard! I usually stripboard all simpler modules and use ready made boards (or etch boards myself) only for the more complex projects. |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:01 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Now if Fonik would do a PCB for the baby seq, that would be awesome (check out the cool samples he did with that in the resonator thread).
Fonik, I think that would be a great board to do. A no-muss sequencer that delivers.
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I second that emotion _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:41 am Post subject:
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the baby10 is so simple, i saw no need for a PCB and mounted allmost everything to the panel, except the IC and ken stones gate2trigger circuit!
but i will think about it... _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:
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I used one for years - they're effective and an easy circuit to build and comprehend. It would make an ideal starter for anybody just getting going with synths, yet be something they could use even when they went to a higher level sequencer.
Cheerios,
Scott |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:23 am Post subject:
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Quote: | the baby10 is so simple, i saw no need for a PCB and mounted allmost everything to the panel, except the IC and ken stones gate2trigger circuit!
but i will think about it... |
I feel you fonik. It was more of a "for the greater good", but you've already been knocking stuff out for the greater good. I wish I could have grabbed a resonator PCB, but I'm so far behind as it is. Things happen so fast around here it's hard to keep up _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1502 Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | It's not the prettiest girl at the dance |
Are you kidding? It's beautiful!
+1 on the blank stare experience. My wife does attempt to humor me, though, which is more than I can ask.
Best quote from my kid (while I was listening to TD): "Dad, that synthesizer sounds just like yours, only that one makes music."
Cheerio,
Scott |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject:
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Scott Stites wrote: | Best quote from my kid (while I was listening to TD): "Dad, that synthesizer sounds just like yours, only that one makes music."
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject:
Re: CGS VS MFOS |
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RF wrote: | It's not the prettiest girl at the dance...but it's kept me off the streets the past 6 months. |
hey, that's really nice. i suddenly have to think of the SIEMENS music laboratory from the 50ies. i like that kind of retro-futurism. _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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doctorvague
Joined: Mar 14, 2007 Posts: 281 Location: new mexico
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:09 am Post subject:
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Beautiful RF!
The Micromoog brings back memories too...
played one for years.
Phil |
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creatorlars
Joined: Nov 26, 2007 Posts: 524 Location: Denton, TX
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:52 am Post subject:
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I would definitely like to confirm everything everyone has said about CGS & MFOS... I'm about "half done" filling my first 36-space (moog/dotcom format) diy modular. I started out with drum modules, so I'm only just now starting to round out my selection of "traditional" modules. The MFOS boards are much easier to work with for beginners -- they are double-sided so that is why they are more expensive than the CGS boards. They're spaced out more and very easy to solder on. Out of the 5 MFOS modules I've built (1 VCO, 1 VCLFO, 2 ADSRs, 1 Phase Shifter) and 2 Soundlabs -- they ALL worked on first power up, no need for going back to fix bad solder joints, confusing wiring issues, etc. -- which, since I'm not an experienced builder, I usually have to do.
As far as cost goes, for me most of that gets eaten up by panel/pots/knobs/jacks -- the difference in PCB prices is usually pretty negligent when compared to how much you save by using $0.50 knobs vs. $4.00 knobs or $1.00 pots vs. $7.00 pots.
Also, while I've really wanted to build some of the CGS modules, most of them seem useful mainly after you have a partial system running already. I've built the Cynare and two CGS VCAs, and have several PCBs (Pulse Divider, Burst Generator, Analog Logic, etc) that I won't build until I have more basics covered.
Finished my MFOS Phase Shifter last night and I love it. |
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creatorlars
Joined: Nov 26, 2007 Posts: 524 Location: Denton, TX
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:03 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Best quote from my kid (while I was listening to TD): "Dad, that synthesizer sounds just like yours, only that one makes music." |
Haha! My 3 year old always says: "Daddy, your music machine sounds broken." |
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