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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » ChucK programming language
hi people,further reading wanted
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vrachnasormora



Joined: Mar 22, 2007
Posts: 42
Location: Preveza,Greece

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject:  hi people,further reading wanted
Subject description: reading on programming
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Hi there to all you ChucKists,I may be a newcomer to this forum but I'm also very grateful to you all because as a guest since august 2006 I've learned a lot things about ChucK from your topics.My first post might be somewhat irrelevant with the heart of ChucK but as I didn't have any programming knowledge before getting involved with it,I would like some recommendations in further reading on programming.I intend to work mainly with ChucK (although I sometimes use PD as well), so I will prefer to obtain only the necessary knowledge and not to expand to C++ and Java fields.Therefore I need to learn a way of thinking about programming or better thinking before programming.I hope I was understood to you who can help me.Thank you
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kijjaz



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: bangkok, thailand
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi,
i still don't have my usual places i can read about those also.
so i've just done some googling, and find this quite a good starting point..
but it's not like a beginner's book.. but i guess it's quite enjoyable
reading those articles.

The Stony Brook Algorithm Repository
http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~algorith/
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you've never programed before I think the best and most general start would be a introduction text on formal logic.

From there you can branch out but the logic will benefit you everywhere. You'll be using it anyway, might as well be at home in it.

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vrachnasormora



Joined: Mar 22, 2007
Posts: 42
Location: Preveza,Greece

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting link what you got there Kijjaz,thank you.You see,my problem is that I want to gain some certainity on coding before executing so as not to experiment on this high-level part of the synthesis procedure.On the low-level front (DSP) I have acquired some good material,although(and this one goes to you Kassen,because I've seen you refering to it many times) I'm curious about "the CSound handbook".Is that the book from Richard Boulanger?Thank you again for the warm welcome
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Csound handbook (indeed by Boulanger) is a good book, but maybe not for this purpose.

It's good (IMHO) because it touches on a lot of concepts and it illustrates them with actual code so that's quite practical. It also deals with some topics that are only sideways related to music and programing but that are hardly dealt with elsewhere. Provided you can read Csound it's a very stimulating read

On the down-side; Csound is very different from ChucK and far less practical for most things. ChucK is far more modern and probably more fun. I can read Csound (mostly) but I prefer not to write it, if you get what I mean.

I would stay away from the Csound book right now to avoid trying to learn two languages at once... but yes; it's a good book and it covers a lot of ground, IMHO it's just not a good introduction into programing in general.

DSP books are interesting but they can fry your brain as well. Pritty soon you get into filter coeficients and unity circles with imaginary components and it all gets more complicated then what I think is fun. Fortunately the ChucK filter section got a update a while ago.

Maybe Ge or Spencer will have more wisdom but I'm sticking to my opinion that if you want to get started with programing you can't go wrong with some solid foundation in logic. Maybe something on algorithems, itterations, loops, recursion.

Or you could keep it lighthearted and get a copy of Godel Echer Bach by Hofstadter and read and modify lots of the ChucK example files, using hte manual to tie them together. I think I'd seriously recomend that if you are the playfull sort of person (and this would include a free crash-cource in logic as well as lots of comments on how math and music relate).

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vrachnasormora



Joined: Mar 22, 2007
Posts: 42
Location: Preveza,Greece

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well,I'll trust your opinion on formal logic investigation because I see you're sticking with it and I like that.I'll give it a try,a willingful one.See, my "problem" is that I always try to be perfectly sure before going on and as such,searching for the most useful,least academic reading.As for DSP books I believe I have already fried my mind(mostly for filtering,yes),and now desperate for cool fun.And that's exactly the reason I chose chuck instead of csound and supercollider.I can't say for sure if it's the syntax (for my case) but ChucK is fresh air to me.Both for the interface and the features.Hope to have my first work out of it soon so as to really contribute to this community.Thank you
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majutsu



Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: New York
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think it would be hard to learn programming without learning a language. just learn c++ so you understand chuck syntax (which is basically c++ in loops etc), and also to understand classes and how to make them in chuck. An added bonus is that you would be able to read the chuck source code (which is c++) and perhaps add your own libraries to chuck, specially tailored for you alone. I therefore recommend the C++ primer plus by Prata. Prata's book is clear and covers programming principles, OOP basics, and C algorithmic fundamentals. Chuck becomes brilliant and malleable from this c-inspired viewpoint. Chuck really is an amazingly well-done labor of love. Lastly, in the interest of morality and self-development, if you learn c++ you can one day repay the beautiful gift of chuck you've been given and give back, repay your debt -- it's your dharma Wink
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kijjaz



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: bangkok, thailand
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i see the Theory and Technique of Electronic Music book by Miller Puckette
http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques.htm
very useful for the subject..
althought it's in another language..
but it describe how to use each value for particular technics very well.
and seeing that in a PD patch kinda give a hint already on the programming.

but it's mainly on synthesis..
if it's gonna be about programming and algorithms.. i'll agree with Kassen.

i haven't got any formal programming education..
what i do still based on these old days i'm playing around GWBASIC, QBASIC in DOS
it was when i make simple games as a hobby
and that teaches me a lot about how to imagine things and program them to work...

but it's so much different in music synthesis .. especially for realtime performances.
- - -

additional resources:
Sound Synthesis and Sound Design
by Rob Hordijk
website: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhordijk/Proto/Index.htm

Music Programming - An Introductory Essay (1988)
by Chris Dobrian
html: http://music.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/CD.MusicProgramming.htm

A Brief History of Algorithmic Composition
by john a. maurer iv
html: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~blackrse/algorithm.html

Synth Secrets: Links to All Parts
website: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm
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