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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
CGS29/ Wavemultiplier
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:44 am    Post subject: CGS29/ Wavemultiplier
Subject description: does a Ceramic Cap fits to the 5,6N? Which pots to implement ?
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Hi

i'm sorry but i cannot post to the CGS yahoogroup ( --->your email address is currently bouncing. ?? ) anyway, this is not the point


1.) the 5,6N Cap:
I have only ceramic, is this a Problem ?

2.) Which pots should i really implement ?
The question is mainly about these which are marked as optional on the CGS site
http://www.cgs.synth.net/
----> tri Level, Lag, AC-in


all the others i think i'll do.
Lag sounds interesting.

On the other side this all are very much. It's not a thing of space, then more a thing of complexity to finally patch up the modul


Which Pots would you recommend to implement ?
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The wave multiplier was the first module I actually built for the KS-01, and still remains one of my favorites. The board I used was an original, which didn't have the Lockhart - just the WM and the Grinder and a playpen area I never took advantage of.

I used all three pots for the Grinder section, which really is more or less a way of introducing a bit of pitched noise/distortion on the signal. I have it wired as a separate section. Being a noise sort of thing, I would imagine a ceramic cap would work there as well as anything. I like to use it for processing noise, especially when using the noise for percussive effects.

Other controls I have are signal input level, initial PW, PWM CV level, Folds, Folds CV level, Offset, Offset CV Level. I wouldn't scrimp on any of those, because, IMO, being able to set the amount of CV applied to a specific initial level is what really opens the module up. Just like a filter, I suppose.

I almost exclusively send it triangle waves. One of my favorite patches is to send the EG to both the folds CV and the offset CV, but invert the EG signal before going to one or the other. This produces some of the most interesting metallic sounds I've heard this side of FM.

Cheers,
Scott
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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: CGS29/ Wavemultiplier
Subject description: does a Ceramic Cap fits to the 5,6N? Which pots to implement ?
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you may want to take a look at my layout:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/Page7.html

as you can see i implemented the grinder too (the lag is just a part of this little circuit).

the offset is actually nothing but a 2nd tri input (often misunderstood) - don't leave it off!!!! that makes this circuit rock as scott already mentioned.

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@fonik
Yeah, i head allready a look, but no overview Wink.
But now i understand better. You leave out the AC and DC input attenuators

Scott stites wrote:
I like to use it for processing noise, especially when using the noise for percussive effects.

Scott Stites wrote:
I almost exclusively send it triangle waves. One of my favorite patches is to send the EG to both the folds CV and the offset CV, but invert the EG signal before going to one or the other. This produces some of the most interesting metallic sounds I've heard this side of FM.


This sounds very interesting.
The Metallic sounds are some of the things i especially enjoy on my modularsystem.
And "percussive" sounds also very cool. ( and fortunately i'm also building the CGS digital Noise. Have no noise modul yet)

I thought it bevore and do even more:
The CGS Wavemultiplier seems to be one of the most intetesting modules a beginner as me can build.
Just 2 Resistors and the 5,6N Cap to solder and to design the Frontpanel.
As i like to have input attenuators i think i'll do them all.
I'm very curious about this module.
( SN Voice and RS3100 have to wait after the next Partsorder )


Thank you Scott and fonik
Things are clear now for me
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
the offset is actually nothing but a 2nd tri input (often misunderstood) - don't leave it off!!!!


This is true. The differentation is important from an operational point of view. It's important that both a manual voltage and a separate, adjustable input be provided for the offset. The offset, when at DC through subaudio, whether manual or CV or a combination of the two, is a powerful tool in control of the timbre. Offsetting the input with a static or comparatively slow moving DC component (EG, LFO, etc.) drastically alters the content of the folds output. And this effect is dependent upon the relative setting of the folds control and folds CV. A favorite excercise of mine is to leave all CV control out, feed it a triangle wave, move the folds level slightly, then adjust the offset through its range, adjust the folds again, etc,over and over, ad nauseum. You'll find there are 'peaks and valleys' of timbre, each with something different to offer, and this is without modulation. When modulated, these 'peak and valleys' fly by at a faster rate, which gives things that metallic sound.

It does good metallic, but that's just the tip of the iceberg with this module.

Cheers,
Scott
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tommi



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, maybe I haven't done a good search, but where can I find some sound example of this module?
thanks

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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What is the range on the pulsewidth? 10-90%?
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tommi



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just ordered one board! Very Happy
Only 4 dollars for the shipping. I think it will take at least one month to receive it...

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tommi



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can't believe! The board was on my mailbox today! Superfast!
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zthee



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! That's super fast!
It usually takes 2 weeks for me to get my boards from CGS.

Gonna wire up my CGS29 tonight. cat
Hope ti works stragith away..

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tommi



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please post some sample! I think it will take some time to have mine working (still have to order the parts, build a new case!, etc etc, and to decide wich optional parameter to add).
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zthee



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll try to post some vids of it.

Got the CGS67 on the panel as well. So I might do that at the same time then.. Smile

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zthee



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here it is! No video but some sounds!

CGS29 and CGS67.mp3

First it's the folder section of the wavemultiplier.
First turning up folds, then offset.
Then turning down folds then offset.
Then modulation the folds and offset.

Then at 02.45 it's the Lockart wavefolder.
Just fiddling the knobs.

Then at 02.58 it's the Grinder.
I'm adjusting the tune of the DSG I'm using as oscillator, hence the changing in tone. I'm not sure if my grinder works as it should. It doesn't seem to do as much as I thought?

Then at 03.58 it's the CGS67 ringmodulator - and I can just say OMG! I didn't think it was that powerfull!
I start modulation the carrier after a while. Well you'll hear it..

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tommi



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, it sounds good!
Thanks for posting your sounds zthee!
I think that the grinder it's ok. I thought it would be something very rough, just like what you posted!
Do you have mounted all the optional parts or you have leaved off something?

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zthee



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've left of the PWM input/output. I have it on an old WM that I built, but I never use it, and it seems that it's only valid for a certain range of settings - resulting in silence most of the time. So I figured I'd go without it.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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tommi



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! What a quick response! It seems that you have one big panel for many modules... I can't figure out how you mounted the pcb on the panel since I can't see any screw.. anyway it looks very pro. I like banana jack but I am an eurorack fan because I need compact devices because I have a little space.
I 've just populated the board and I have to make the panel now, so I want to see the different choices that I have.

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zthee



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've mounted the boards in rails as they do in Serge systems.

http://www.thehumancomparator.net/back.jpg That's a picture of an old panel I built.

If you go with the manual PWM input knob, try wiring it through an extra 100K resistor, or put a 200K on the input (intead of the 100K that's already there). This might improve it.
Theory: You have +/-15V at the pot, going through the first mixer at the PWM stage, with the 47K resistor in the feedback should bring it down to about +/-7.5V, this is then fed to the comparator that squares up the output from the folder. The 200K resistor should bring it down to about +/-3-5V or something like that. Since the comparator is acting on the output of the folder, which will probably be a 5Vpp wave having something above 5V at the input will result in silence. I haven't tried it though! The 200K could perhapps be lower as well, 150K or higher, 300K? Depends on what kind of response you want...

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tommi



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, ok! pcb soldered pots and jacks.
So I think I 'll use the same panel layout as Fonik and see how it works with the pwm control. If it's out of range I 'll implement the change you suggested me.
P.S.: the sounds you posted come from the last revision pcb, isn't it?

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DGTom



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if you have the panel space I think the PWM is worth implementing - taking on board zthees comments which I totally agree with, there are 'dead spots' at certain settings (this is quite comman in PWM ccts. in VCOs as well I've found, I assumed it just means that you are able to set the width of the pulse to 0, no in its self a bad thing) despite its limitations it sounds really good being FM'd - for my purposes, give it a try & see if you like it, but I've found its great for creating buzzy, pwm bass sounds when CV'd at audio rates.
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zthee



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I think so. I can check later. But I think the rev 1 boards are very old...?
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
I'm not sure if my grinder works as it should. It doesn't seem to do as much as I thought?
.

it really depends on the sounds you feed how it turns out.
It takes some time to get the hang for it.
I never patch with basic waveforms so i can't tell if it sounds right, but i guess it does.



did you see the notes about the OPamp for the grinder on the CGS29 docs ?
i automatically putted an TL072 in it, but you need an (i think) 741 ( see the docs) .
It really makes a difference !
I love the grinder .

On my second wavefolder i omitted the PWM controls and also the lockhart wavefolder.
That one i prefer to have on a own very small panel somehwere else. ( good to have a bypass switch on this one )
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zthee



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I missed that part in the docs. I need an LM358 there i/o a TL072. Think I've got a Tl072 now, not sure. I'll check it out.

Haven't feed it anything else then just triangel. I'll try to feed it a drumloop or something else, and hope it sounds rougher!

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hobgob_inc



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah I've got a 358 in there and i still can't seem to get much out of it... only high frequency whistle sorta sounds....Funky can you shed any more light on this??
Should i try a 741 in there?

luke
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zthee



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A 741 wouldn't work to well! It's a single op amp, where's the LM358 is a dual!
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hobgob_inc wrote:
Yeah I've got a 358 in there and i still can't seem to get much out of it... only high frequency whistle sorta sounds....Funky can you shed any more light on this??
Should i try a 741 in there?

luke

yup. its LM358

your description sounds familiar Laughing
I guess your unit is working Laughing Laughing

See Scott Stites post above. Theres good info inside.
It's a good Idea ro build the Grinder with a bypassswitch, IMO.
patching thru LPGs some percussion might be the best to get an idea how to work with the grinder.
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