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Need Advice on new Firewire Sound Card
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:59 am    Post subject: Need Advice on new Firewire Sound Card Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm looking to get a firewire soundcard for my PC. I'm assuming this will eliminate the latency issues I am having with Cubase.
Can anyone point me in the right direction toward a brand to stick with or stay away from?
Some that I have been thinking about getting:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire410-main.html
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-iO14-Portable-14-Input-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=246030
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=731&ParentId=114
Any suggestions?
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How big a studio do you want, or need?
How big is your budget?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That new M-Audio FW mixer device is pretty good. You might want some more upmarket stuff later, but this one solves more than one problem.
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
That new M-Audio FW mixer device is pretty good. You might want some more upmarket stuff later, but this one solves more than one problem.

Thanks. I was leaning toward this one (M-audio FW410). I appreciate the advice.
EdisonRex wrote:
How big a studio do you want, or need?
How big is your budget?

Very good questions.
I think eventually I will want a Professional Studio with tons of equipment, but for now, my budget is the limiting factor. I can really only spend about $300 to $400 on a sound card.
I have been using Reason and Cubase for years to produce really crappy PsyTrance. I just recently got a SH-201 and have just grown tired of latency issues on my notebook PC, and assumed this would provide a solution.
So, thanks for the input. Time to deliberate happy smoker
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have several audio interfaces, like the AudioWerk2, Motu 828, the RME FireFace 800, some M-Audio 2496 cards and the FW 410. If you really just need a cheap and good card get the PCI M-Audio 2496 or 24192. The 410 I wouldn´t recommend. There are several reasons why.. long story. If you need multiple inputs then the mixer firewire thingie is a decent option.
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfortunately I can't use the PCI slot on my Notebook, or that might have been an option.
Still. I am really not even sure if a firewire or usb 2.0 sound card will solve my latency issues (49ms) with cubase. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I noticed the Mackie Onyx Satellite being sold at a local website fairly cheaply (around 300€). To me Mackie usually means a bit more high end and money... does anyone know anything about this interface?

/Stefan

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kenl666



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Need Advice on new Firewire Sound Card Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have you also looked at the Presonus Firebox?

My personal experience with MAudio was not good, I purchased the Firebox to replace my Delta66 which I could never get to work correctly; granted, the problem was probably specific to my configuration (dual boot G4 with aftermarket accelerator), but still, the Firebox hasn't given me a single problem.
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Need Advice on new Firewire Sound Card Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
I noticed the Mackie Onyx Satellite being sold at a local website fairly cheaply (around 300€). To me Mackie usually means a bit more high end and money... does anyone know anything about this interface?

/Stefan

Interesting, I checked one of those out yesterday at a Guitar Center here in Los Angeles, and it didn't even have midi ports on it. Thumb down
I asked the dude what was up, and he said the older model had them and he didn't know why they dropped them from the newer models. Rolling Eyes
kenl666 wrote:
Have you also looked at the Presonus Firebox?

My personal experience with MAudio was not good, I purchased the Firebox to replace my Delta66 which I could never get to work correctly; granted, the problem was probably specific to my configuration (dual boot G4 with aftermarket accelerator), but still, the Firebox hasn't given me a single problem.

That's really good to hear. I have always liked M-audio stuff because it's so affordable and they "claim" to be professional quality, shoot, my O2 has handled really well after all the hammering i've done on it over the past few years. I honestly was thinking about getting the M-audio Delta66, but if you say that you couldn't get it to work properly, that's exactly what I want to hear.
What to stay away from is almost better advice than what to get. Thanks.
That Firebox looks pretty powerful for such a small size. I wonder, does the unit ship with the spdif-midi breakout cable? It looks like it only has a few inputs (like 4 or 6).
Anyone have any experience (or thoughts) about either the Alesis io14 or io26. dunno
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kenl666



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Need Advice on new Firewire Sound Card Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ashaneen wrote:

kenl666 wrote:
Have you also looked at the Presonus Firebox?

My personal experience with MAudio was not good, I purchased the Firebox to replace my Delta66 which I could never get to work correctly; granted, the problem was probably specific to my configuration (dual boot G4 with aftermarket accelerator), but still, the Firebox hasn't given me a single problem.

That's really good to hear. I have always liked M-audio stuff because it's so affordable and they "claim" to be professional quality, shoot, my O2 has handled really well after all the hammering i've done on it over the past few years. I honestly was thinking about getting the M-audio Delta66, but if you say that you couldn't get it to work properly, that's exactly what I want to hear.
What to stay away from is almost better advice than what to get. Thanks.
That Firebox looks pretty powerful for such a small size. I wonder, does the unit ship with the spdif-midi breakout cable? It looks like it only has a few inputs (like 4 or 6).
dunno


Yep, it has a breakout cable with the SPDIF (which is what I use it for) and MIDI. This works for me since I don't do any multi-tracking, any external synths are tracked one-at-a-time through a preamp with digital output.

I haven't checked the latency (which isn't really an issue for me) but be advised that the firebox does use the class drivers so (my understanding is that) it has higher latency than a device with a custom driver.
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Need Advice on new Firewire Sound Card Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kenl666 wrote:
...edit...

Yep, it has a breakout cable with the SPDIF (which is what I use it for) and MIDI. This works for me since I don't do any multi-tracking, any external synths are tracked one-at-a-time through a preamp with digital output.

I haven't checked the latency (which isn't really an issue for me) but be advised that the firebox does use the class drivers so (my understanding is that) it has higher latency than a device with a custom driver.

Hmm. Thanks for the info. I'm still shopping around, so I'll consider that. Cool
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Echo audio interfaces are good.

I like this one:
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire12/forums.html

However, many of the smaller ones are great too.

If you have an older laptop with far from stellar performance, aiming for something very basic and decent is better than a huge FW interface.

Try something like: http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/CardBus/IndigoIO/forums.html

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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
The Echo audio interfaces are good.

I like this one:
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire12/forums.html

However, many of the smaller ones are great too.

If you have an older laptop with far from stellar performance, aiming for something very basic and decent is better than a huge FW interface.

Try something like: http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/CardBus/IndigoIO/forums.html

I checked out that Echo Fire 12 and the Fire 8 and I think they may be a bit expensive for what I am trying to achieve.
Right now, I think I don't want to spend more than around $300.
I have narrowed it down to Either the Presonus Firebox or the Alesis IO/14, I think. Still kinda' shoppin' around, but I'm probably going to get one in the next few days. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the Firebox is probably a good choice. What I have heard good about them, I hear more than the bad things I hear. Most of the bad things I hear turn out to be user issues. Although I seem to remember a driver problem once.
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
I think the Firebox is probably a good choice. What I have heard good about them, I hear more than the bad things I hear. Most of the bad things I hear turn out to be user issues. Although I seem to remember a driver problem once.

I am kind of shying away from the firebox and toward the Alesis io|14 Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Mainly because it looks like I can adjust more on this, and see input and clip levels on the front. So, for around $300, I think this is what I'm going to get.
Good choice? Poor choice?
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

$300? Looks good to me. I can only caution you to check it out thoroughly.
And do please report back. I don't need one in my studio but you never know when someone else will want one. Smile

Alesis have always been reputable. I am sure someone will throw one of their turkeys into this discussion if there is one, but I've had a lot of Alesis kit and it's always worked. They've also thrown lots of functionality into inexpensive boxes.

That's not a recommendation for it, but I'm not trying to put you off!

I looked at the product page. It does actually look better than the firebox. Don't get sucked into the 192KHz "Pristine" shit though. However it sounds like it has a good processor in it.

No way to test drive it?

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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wish I could test drive it. Rolling Eyes
If I get this one (or whatever firewire audio interface I do get) I will definitely report back with my progress. Driver issues/non-issues, ease of setup, etc... and more to the point of why I'm gettin' it, I'll report on audio latency (hopefully very low to nil) I'm having with Cubase on my A-51m notebook head banging monitor
Thanks for the ideas
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

always glad to help out. I'd also like to hear what you produce with it, even if it's just twiddling. If you're so inclined.

I think after reading on it, the alesis is a good one. But I don't own one, so use my sage advice wisely... Idea I mean it seems to have decent reviews.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
always glad to help out. I'd also like to hear what you produce with it, even if it's just twiddling. If you're so inclined.

I think after reading on it, the alesis is a good one. But I don't own one, so use my sage advice wisely... Idea I mean it seems to have decent reviews.

Of course. Cool
Thanks for the advice (grain of salt added), I appreciate having the ability to make an informed purchase. The only other option for me for an audio interface is the Edirol FA-66, but it seems very similar to the firebox, and I think I would prefer the Alesis.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like some of Edirol's stuff but as I wrote in a review of the most significant purchase (the Edirol R-4 disk recorder) it has some pretty glaring issues, despite being a nice piece of kit. I tend to think that Edirol has that disease, the "almost good" problem.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! cool
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Ashaneen



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I ended up gettin' the Alesis IO|14. It solved the latency problem with cubase, but when my computer gets bogged down, I hear a sort of "skip" in the audio. I thnk I may need to upgrade my ram and clean up my machine a bit to get this audio interface working perfectly. Confused
Thanks all for the advice. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ashaneen wrote:
Well, I ended up gettin' the Alesis IO|14. It solved the latency problem with cubase, but when my computer gets bogged down, I hear a sort of "skip" in the audio. I thnk I may need to upgrade my ram and clean up my machine a bit to get this audio interface working perfectly. Confused
Thanks all for the advice. Laughing


check your buffer size. Too large, and you get stuttering/skipping under load especially under Windows. Also defrag your hard disk - disk latency through io queue waits also results in playback and recording problems. And yeah, RAM always helps.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
Ashaneen wrote:
Well, I ended up gettin' the Alesis IO|14. It solved the latency problem with cubase, but when my computer gets bogged down, I hear a sort of "skip" in the audio. I thnk I may need to upgrade my ram and clean up my machine a bit to get this audio interface working perfectly. Confused
Thanks all for the advice. Laughing


check your buffer size. Too large, and you get stuttering/skipping under load especially under Windows. Also defrag your hard disk - disk latency through io queue waits also results in playback and recording problems. And yeah, RAM always helps.

Right, so thanks fro the advice.
I uninstalled unnecessary programs on my laptop, defragged my HD, and upgraded my RAM to 2GB. Now, this successfully solved the audio "skip" I was hearing through the Alesis, but now at high volumes the audio has a sort of a click every 1/2 second or so despite my system meeting the requirements detailed on the Alesis Site:
http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=95
System Hardware Requirements

PC:
• Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon 2.0 Ghz or faster
• 1 Gig RAM or more
• Windows XP Home or Professional Service Pack 2 or higher (Windows XP Media Center Edition is untested)
My system Specs:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
I'm also having issues with Cubase automatically switching the sample rate from 192 kHz to 44.1 kHz on the Alesis during the audio hardware test in Cubase
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
and going through the Device Setup in Cubase shows that the latency has gotten down there, but this fact is negligible if the output audio signal is going to have clicks throughout. Confused
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
So, I wouldn't recommend this sound card to someone with a PC, I really don't know if it would be any better on a MAC. Rolling Eyes [/img]
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Clicks are usually clock slip. This is when you haven't managed to sync two clocks (they both think they are sources) and they beat with each other. Usually more of a pain in the ass when you have a lot of clocked devices (like I do) and one of them isn't slaved properly.

I am puzzled though because you only have this alesis, so it should only be clocking to itself. But that said I read some stuff where it wants clock from internal to the PC or one of the cards or something. I can look that up again.

I think there is still some more tuning to do. It doesn't sound like a bad card or anything. But digital stuff can be touchy (especially on PCs). I have a Raptor capture card for video on my PC and it's quite touchy on a good day.

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