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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » OSX as a music workstation
DP 5.11
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: DP 5.11
Subject description: Quite an upgrade
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I'll stick this in here instead of sequencers. DP isn't really a sequencer anymore.

I got my DP5.11 upgrade today and have been perusing the 1074 page manual. Shocked It's kind of a staple of MOTU that you get a good manual to put you to sleep at night. Smile

Anyway. I upgraded from 4.61, I stay reasonably current with my DP upgrade path, mainly because of the need to stay current with the technology, as opposed to staying current with the upgrades. I believe 5 came out a while ago, but I didn't bite because I was still learning about 4.6.

Anyway, there's some new stuff. Whilst DP4 introduced the window bundles and other useful stuff (actually useful stuff comes out in every DP upgrade), I am pleased to see that they didn't really screw around with the windows more in 5. They did add more windows, and they changed the keyboard commands (oh noes, I have to reprogram my shuttlepro! Sad )

But they do include 6 virtual instruments. Plus their usual VST, MAS and AU support. I'm spoiled enough for choice. I haven't had time to really evaluate the 6 VIs but this weekend I should have time. They look fairly comprehensive, but I need to try them out. And compare them with my hardware...

It's got all the usual interapplication and channelization thingies. If something else is running, you can usually see it, or you add Soundflower and then you do anyway.

I'll post more as I explore. There's a lot in this version!

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I spent some time today with DP5.11.

I won't talk about the existing features - the stuff from before is still there. Some of it has improved. Fixing a pitch is a little better from the v4 method.

The new instruments are okay for soft synths. I took all day to explore them. They are, well, soft synths. I get latency. It's like playing a pipe organ, it's like a 100ms lag and I can't seem to fix it. I have a dual 2.5MHz G5 Mac Pro. The CPU meter says we aren't using much, but we still have the latency. I probably won't use them. They are nice synths though. A bass, a lead, a poly, a sampler, a drum machine and some other one. I got annoyed with the latency. Mind you, this applies to all of the other ones on my system so I could have some setting I don't know about which I haven't adjusted. I guess I am saying "Yawn". If you paid for DP, you probably have your own kit. But I could easily be wrong, there could be legions of musicians who spent all their money on a Mac Pro and DP, and don't have money left over for a sampler and need to use it on the CPU...

The rest of it seems the usual rock solid MOTU program. I have yet to explore the improvements to the drum programming stuff, POLAR, and the pitch shifting stuff.

I did do one thing today, I built a spectrum analyser in MSP today to watch the waveforms with. I threw in another 'scope to check against my hardware output scope and found a difference. I fixed that.. Old EQ programs in the mixer. Discipline is part of doing good productions...

More to come.

[/u]

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice! We are reading this!
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Alexander



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent topic!
I really like the software, but it's strange to be one of the few people in my direct surroundings to actually use it, it's not common software over here. I would love to work with other people to see what other ways there are to use it. The program had such an impact on my own way of working, it's good to read your experiences. Thank you.

Quote:
Discipline is part of doing good productions...
amen.

I am using 4.61 and still waiting to upgrade. I am running it on my g4 powerbook and my guess is it's better to first save up for an intel processor to run 5.11.
How does MOTU handle that, when I get an upgrade and want to run 4.61 on one machine and 5.11 on another? Is it even possible? (sorry this is a bit offtopic, it feels like thinking out loud Wink )

How was the switch, are shortcuts and workflow affected?

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alexander wrote:
Excellent topic!


Thank you. I was surprised to see very little discussion of DP on these boards. I've used DP since I switched over from Dr T's on the Atari somewhere in the early '90s.

Quote:

I really like the software, but it's strange to be one of the few people in my direct surroundings to actually use it, it's not common software over here. I would love to work with other people to see what other ways there are to use it. The program had such an impact on my own way of working, it's good to read your experiences. Thank you.


Well, now apparently there are a fair few in London using it, or so I hear from the distributor. I've not seen many. The studios all seem to be using Pro-tools and I think most of the home studios use PC based stuff nowadays.


Quote:

I am using 4.61 and still waiting to upgrade. I am running it on my g4 powerbook and my guess is it's better to first save up for an intel processor to run 5.11.
How does MOTU handle that, when I get an upgrade and want to run 4.61 on one machine and 5.11 on another? Is it even possible? (sorry this is a bit offtopic, it feels like thinking out loud Wink )



The new image is universal.The release notes were straightforward. There is some way to upgrade if you're changing machines, I'm sure I'll run into it when I buy my 8 core Mac Pro sometime. Wink

I have a MOTU 2408 Mk3 on the Mac and as a whole, complex multiaudio setup with lots of effects hasn't been that bad on my G5, I think they've done some work to make this even more efficient. I have my favourite effects, some chosen for their CPU thriftiness. I think they've updated the stock MAS effects to be more efficient too. Can't say for sure because it takes a while to find every nook and cranny of this environment (to call it a sequencer is really understating it).

Quote:

How was the switch, are shortcuts and workflow affected?


I think the switch from DP3 to DP4 was far more disruptive than the switch to DP5 from DP4 seems, just with two days in, mind you, so I am still in early days. Shortcuts are affected, but you are given the option to merge them, abandon the old ones or save them as a separate set (which I elected to do). I have a Shuttle Pro and that didn't need reprogramming after all, so all of the basic shortcuts are the same. The window sets have subtle differences, and it looks like they've done more work in the mixer/automation panels, which I'll write about next since I need to see how a change I made in my studio has affected the main mixing table's automation. The manual, which doubles as a lethal weapon at over 1000 pages, is, as is usual for MOTU, very comprehensive.

As usual, the US list price of the upgrade is about $140 and the UK upgrade price is £140. I'd bet the Euro price is 140 too, but I think it depends on the distributor. Rolling Eyes

I have both manuals (DP4.5 and 5.11) so I'll compare them and post the notable differences. I mean, what they say on their website gives you a good idea, but until you actually use it, you don't know how effective the updates are.

Ah well anyway I'll pop back in a bit. Need more coffee and I can read outside, it's a beautiful day.

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And after a pleasant afternoon outside, part of it spent in the garden reading the 4.5 and 5.0 manuals, here's what I see as the big changes.

+ AAF file support and expanded OMF support (Pro tools compatibility)
- Mention of Mosaic is dropped from the new manual.
- Save to previous versions only supported to 3.1 now
+ Save (new) V-racks as separate files
+ Save memory and auto-record times in a track
+ Countoff button enhancements
+ Track window preferences enhanced (lots of new preference windows)
+ New track type "Instrument"
+ Soundbites mini menu enhanced
+ Apple loops now supported as a import type
+ Instrument bundles introduced
- Voice track type is now called "Audio" track
+ six new virtual instruments; AU and VST instruments also supported in instrument tracks and bundles
+ Meter bridge window
+ MIDI keys menu (qwerty to MIDI)
+ better documentation
+ Bounce to Quicktime Movie added
+ new chunk type "V-Rack" (group virtual instruments/effects)
+ MAS plugins now fully implement dynamic CPU management

That's just looking at the manuals. They reorganised the 5.0 manual, more logically laid out, considerably more info on many features.

In summary, the major change was to add better virtual instrument support. There are some other bundle enhancements, some shortcut enhancements, and some feature enrichments but that's the main change.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
I switched over from Dr T's on the Atari somewhere in the early '90s.

you mean KCS Omega by Dr.T's?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
EdisonRex wrote:
I switched over from Dr T's on the Atari somewhere in the early '90s.

you mean KCS Omega by Dr.T's?


yes, that would be the one. I used KCS Omega for many years. I also used his algorithmic composition software and some other stuff of his. I never met him but I did talk to him very occasionally via emails over the years. I am sure he doesn't know me by this name. I'm sure he doesn't remember me by my real name either. Emile was always an interesting guy, though, he does hang out on the Max/MSP list.

I notice, now that I went to check, that jamos has been posting in these forums. He wrote an amazing, and so far completely unrepeated piece of software, which I used a lot in the early 90s, it was very cool stuff.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
seraph wrote:
EdisonRex wrote:
I switched over from Dr T's on the Atari somewhere in the early '90s.

you mean KCS Omega by Dr.T's?


yes, that would be the one. I used KCS Omega for many years. I also used his algorithmic composition software and some other stuff of his. I never met him but I did talk to him very occasionally via emails over the years. I am sure he doesn't know me by this name. I'm sure he doesn't remember me by my real name either. Emile was always an interesting guy, though, he does hang out on the Max/MSP list.

I notice, now that I went to check, that jamos has been posting in these forums. He wrote an amazing, and so far completely unrepeated piece of software, which I used a lot in the early 90s, it was very cool stuff.


Tunesmith. Damn, I couldn't remember the name. Tunesmith. I see you know your Dr. T's, from some other thread in these forums.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:

I notice, now that I went to check, that jamos has been posting in these forums.


arrow http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-6328.html

btw Emil Tobenfeld attended the 2006 electro-music event in Philadelphia (if I'm not wrong)

Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
I see you know your Dr. T's, from some other thread in these forums.

I was a Dr.T's product specialist in the early '90s before catastrophe struck (they went out of business)

Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've always admired Dr. T. A bit ahead of his time with the software. Think of what he could have done with a forum and some decent email.

Anyway, we digress. DP 5.11 was the subject here Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
btw Emil Tobenfeld attended the 2006 electro-music event in Philadelphia (if I'm not wrong)


He was on the NM mailing list, never knew he had such a bright past Shocked

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
seraph wrote:
btw Emil Tobenfeld attended the 2006 electro-music event in Philadelphia (if I'm not wrong)


He was on the NM mailing list, never knew he had such a bright past Shocked


Dr T was WAY ahead of his time. I am only just finding things that touch what he had. I wish my MMU hadn't died on my ST or I'd still be running Tunesmith.

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