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I'm cleaning my D-50 and need help
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Gothboy



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hummmm, I've got the keyboard out of the housing but now I'm trying to remove the small board in the middle of it. I've got the screws out but it's attatched to the underside of the keyboard with a white ribbon cable. How does this cable come out?
How did you clean the metal part of the keyboard assembly near the computer boards that the rubber contact membranes sit on? I've got all kinds of grunge there and even a bit of mold that I want to clean off but I don't want to damage those boards. Shocked

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No Jan,
I thought it looked prettier just hanging out there waving in the breeze! Rolling Eyes Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That flat ribbon cable just slides out of the edge connector on the main keyboard assembly.

For cleaning that PCB (especially the black contact pads) I'd use your de-natured alchohol on a lint free cloth. You could also try scrubbing it with alchohol on a tooth brush. Sounds like coffee got spilled onto it. Definately sounds a like a nice warm soapy bath is the go for the rubber switch membranes.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
No Jan,


ok ok Laughing

Did some further searching, nothing showed up.

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Gothboy



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
That flat ribbon cable just slides out of the edge connector on the main keyboard assembly.


I decided to just give it a go and pull it out but thanks for the clarification. Smile

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
For cleaning that PCB (especially the black contact pads) I'd use your de-natured alchohol on a lint free cloth.


So it's ok to clean the green boards with alchohol?

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
You could also try scrubbing it with alchohol on a tooth brush. Sounds like coffee got spilled onto it. Definately sounds a like a nice warm soapy bath is the go for the rubber switch membranes.


I think the guy I got it from said someone spilled beer into it! Rolling Eyes

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gothboy wrote:
So it's ok to clean the green boards with alchohol?


Yep, best thing for 'em. Wink

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gothboy wrote:
I think the guy I got it from said someone spilled beer into it! Rolling Eyes


Now you see, if the guy who was drinking the beer had been drinking de-natured alchohol, we wouldn't have a problem would we? Laughing

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Gothboy



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've removed the 5 contact membrane strips and in doing so found the third one( from the right with the lever strip on my left) separated into two pieces right at the point where the two PCB boards meet. Shocked Everything else about it is sound....it's just separated at the seam. I wonder if the space between the boards and playing force over the years causes this and could it cause the one key over it to not work or is it purposely put there like that to compensate for the gap?
So my first though was to put the broken one on last in the highest octave to make sure the G in the middle octave works...but now I'm not so sure. What do you guys think?

I've got everything cleaned up pretty good so I'm about ready to do the re-assembly.


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Last edited by Gothboy on Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, not caused by playing force. Mine was the same. I think it's just the way it was made. The one at the top of the keyboard has weird keying in the rubber anyway, and can't be swapped for the others. I just put them all back in the same spots they came from. It's probably a good idea to rotate them if possible though. They would definately wear at different rates.
Looks like you've done a good job.

BTW Do you reckon we should add that text you sent me to this thread as an attachment? Who wrote it? Would they mind? I just think it would be good to collect all the D50 maintenance info in the one thread for other people to refer to.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Whew! Rolling Eyes Glad to know that. Right now I'm putting the membranes back in place and struggling to get all the nibbles in the holes. hang on for a few. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Keys are going back on now.....
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Everything is back together...........and the G key still makes no sound. Mad The problem keys in the lower register sound great now, but no sound out of the middle G key which is such a bummer beacause it's right in that middle register. Is there any other reason this key won't work? Confused none of the rubber membranes were damaged or broken.....but it must have something to do with it not making contact on the board. Question
I guess I'm going to have to go back in there and see if there's some dirt on the contact board I might have missed or if that rubber membrane cell isn't making contact because it's too worn. Question Real bummer. Crying or Very sad
I also need a new bend lever because one side of where the plastic meets the spring is worn away...so the metal rod slips off. Before I couldn't bend down.....now I can't bend up....so I guess I need parts. A bend lever and maybe a contact strip. Is there a source for these old Roland parts?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How did you clean the rubber membranes? There's still a chance that there's some solid beer sugar across the PCB contacts, and you just need to check and clean them again. How worn are the little black dots on the back of the membranes?
The good thing is that this time in you'll be concentrating on just one key. I doubt the chances of finding those membranes, but there is a possibility that somewhere (at Roland, or a service centre) there is a little drawer of brand new ones just waiting to be needed. Wink
While you're there check the surrounding PCB, and take a nice closeup of the membrane underside and the contacts on the PCB. If possible, swap the membrane for one up in the higher registers. This will tell you if it's the membrane or the PCB, and will also possibly leave it playable. Wink
Good Luck

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I first bathed them in denatured alchohol, then scrubbed them gently with a small toothbrush, then another bath, then I went over them again with my fingers/toothbrush. They didn't look too bad and I did look at the contacts on the underside and they appeared to me to be clean and OK before I put them back in.
I guess I can try a membrane swap but I have a sneaking suspicion that the one in question is that split one and that I might have to swap it with the far upper strip you said had to be used there. Rolling Eyes
The really sucky part is that I have to keep opening and removing those boards and then putting them back in to troubleshoot the problem and see if the key works. Mad

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm so sick of those 20 screws on the back! Rolling Eyes I understand now why maintenance techs are so keen on electric screwdrivers! Laughing Might invest in one myself. Shocked

BTW There's a small set of four which sit near the middle, (includes your dodgy G?) Then there are at least one, maybe two large ones going up the keyboard which have similar keying. I'm thinking, move these down and put the dodgy one before the weird one at the top. Then at least (if it's the membrane) your bottom 3-4 octaves will be fine.

I might try checking the possibilities of finding those switch membranes.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If it turns out the membrane has gone, I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff to repair them somewhere on the net. Now I just need to remember where
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
If it turns out the membrane has gone, I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff to repair them somewhere on the net. Now I just need to remember where


Are you talking about the rubber contact pads or the contacts on the PCB board?

I bought some electrical contact cleaner today and soon I'll go back in to work on that one key area.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gothboy wrote:
modulator_esp wrote:
If it turns out the membrane has gone, I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff to repair them somewhere on the net. Now I just need to remember where


Are you talking about the rubber contact pads or the contacts on the PCB board?

I bought some electrical contact cleaner today and soon I'll go back in to work on that one key area.


I was talking about the rubber contact pads - I think this is what I was thinking of:

http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/synth/korg/polysix/keyclean2.html

A quick search for 'rubber keypad contact repair kit' provides quite a few results, including:

http://www.web-tronics.com/rukerekit8.html

Not sure what you can do if the PCB contact is worn out

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That kit from web-tronics looks cool. Wonder how well it works.
Well if all else fails Gothboy you've got that option.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yesterday I went back to the D-50 to dig deeper and try a few things and now I know why the G key won't sound.....it has something to do with the contacts on the board. Exclamation It's not the contact strip that's causing the problem. Interestingly, the G key in question resides over the last contact on the first green PCB board...the one right before the seam that you can see in one of the pictures...the only anomaly I can see is a tiny, and I mean tiny...connector wire on the board has surface coating worn away so you can see the copper underneath, though I don't know if it's leading to or away from the contact or that it is the thing that's causing the problem.
I pulled the thing apart, cleaned the black pads on the underside of the strip and the contacts themselves on the green board with denatured alchohol.....twice...gave 'em a good cleaning with a Q-tip. Cleaning the contacts on the board revealed additional black dirt that the first cleaning missed....so I was hopeful....but when I got it all back together....no sound Rolling Eyes
So I went in again, this time I swapped the strip in the area of the G key for the next strip up from it, put it all back again.....no sound. Crying or Very sad So it must be the contacts on the board. I really don't know what I'm going to try next. I guess I'll try to hunt down one of those contact kits but I really don't know how to use it or how to further diagnose what's wrong. I guess what I need is a new PCB board in there. Mad My only consolation is that I didn't pay a tech $232.00+ for the cleaning and the troubleshooting! Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gothboy wrote:
...the only anomaly I can see is a tiny, and I mean tiny...connector wire on the board has surface coating worn away so you can see the copper underneath


Maybe the copper trace itself got damaged as well, so that the switch is not connected anymore ?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, that's a distinct possibility. I just got off the phone with a rep from MG Chemicals, the company that makes the rubber contact repair kit. Very nice guy who was kind emough to not only explain how the product is applied and used but let me guide him to this very thread so he could take a look at the photos of the contacts. The kit is really for putting a conductive coating back onto rubber contacts like the ones the D-50 uses...so that's not exactly what I need....BUT... He said I can use the silver in the kit to repair the broken lead by applying a small dollop to the broken lead at the break point.....but before I hoof it down to the ONLY store in my state that carries it( about an hour away) Rolling Eyes I'm going to take an ohm meter and see if I get a reading connecting one side of the contact to the other.......but does the synth have to be plugged in to get an ohm reading on the contacts? Question
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gothboy wrote:
.....but does the synth have to be plugged in to get an ohm reading on the contacts? :?:


No, better not.

Ohm measurement or continuity (or diode) measurements work by injecting a bit of current into the circuit and then measuring the voltage resulting from that. When current already flows because the equipment is on you'll get a false readout as the voltage measured is the result of the sum (or difference when they flow in different directions) of both currents.

It's a good idea to measure the resistance into two directions, So to make a measurement and then to swap the black and red lead for making another one. Depending on how the silicon stuff is connected the readouts could differ.

You said you were going to measure the contact, I hope you meant you were going to measure the trace.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The blueish square is where the problem is ?


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes Jan. I don't know if this is causing the problem but it's what might be and it is what I'm referring to. I get no ohm reading on the contacts....but I get no ohm reading on any of them as I guess the board has to have power going to it. But there's no way to do that as the D-50 has to be put back together to get any reading.....I guess.
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