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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
MP3 Examples of A6 ambient/space music?
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rh2y



Joined: May 08, 2007
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Location: Pittsburgh, USA
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: MP3 Examples of A6 ambient/space music? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi!

Does anyone have any MP3 examples of ambient / space music made with
their A6? I'm considering purchasing an A6, and one of the reasons is to
get some good organic sounds to use in such music. I'm also into other genres, but when I've looked for MP3 examples, most of what I've found is dance oriented.

Thanks!

Russ
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purpurkatten



Joined: May 27, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do a search on google on "alesis a6 mp3" and I´m sure you´ll find at least some of what you´re looking for.

Here are some for a starter:

http://www.wohmart.com/a6/audio/
http://www.alesis.de/downloads/audiodemos.html
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rh2y



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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Do a search on google on "alesis a6 mp3" and I´m sure you´ll find at least some of what you´re looking for.


I've been poking around on the net for a while and I did find some real gems that show off the A6. Having grown up in the 1970's, and being a big fan of Tomita and Wendy Carlos, I was flat out STUNNED by this find, demos of Kenneth Elhardt's Wendy Carlos soundset for the A6:

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2005/11/alesis-andromeda-a6-samples-by-kenneth.html

In some respsects, there are parts of these demos that sound even better than the original Carlos. Although some of the impersonations of Carlos's original patches are imperfect clones, they certainly stand on their own as equally clear, brilliantly crafted, and fabulously impressive, and could easily have been featured on the original albums. The A6 is one impressive beast!

I've almost got my wife convinced I really need one... -- when I played her these demos, she said, "Oh, are you listening to your Wendy Carlos albums again?" Laughing
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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rh2y wrote:
I was flat out STUNNED by this find, demos of Kenneth Elhardt's Wendy Carlos soundset for the A6:
....
In some respsects, there are parts of these demos that sound even better than the original Carlos. Although some of the impersonations of Carlos's original patches are imperfect clones, they certainly stand on their own as equally clear, brilliantly crafted, and fabulously impressive, and could easily have been featured on the original albums. The A6 is one impressive beast!


Ken Elhardt here. It's nice to stumble on a post like this. Thanks for the compliments. I should point out that I was not trying to duplicate specific Carlos sounds, but create sounds in the style of Carlos by using similar techniques. I was going for sounds similar to those on the Well-Tempered Synthesizer and SOB II records. Also, they all have velocity sensitive expression and all the demos were played by hand to make sure they had a human feel to them.

There really isn't much out their as far as MP3 demos for the A6 on the web. I've searched around and about the only thing I remember finding was one site that had a couple of short demos with rather large sounding spacey kind of stringish type sounds. They sounded good. But I've never heard any multitracked A6 demos outside my own. Even Alesis never had demos of the A6. It's a powerful synth that seems to get little use by people.

-Elhardt
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elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you flash player installed and can watch movies, here is another short demo I did on the A6 synthesizing pouring water into a cup and boiling water.

http://www.clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=C429CF25C0F4894C

And an MP3 with the A6 doing Sitar and another exotic stringed instrument sounds. (Drums on from the MOTM analog modular synth)

http://home.att.net/~synth6/MOTM_A6_Indian.mp3


-Elhardt
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rh2y



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:

Ken Elhardt here. It's nice to stumble on a post like this. Thanks for the compliments. I should point out that I was not trying to duplicate specific Carlos sounds, but create sounds in the style of Carlos by using similar techniques. I was going for sounds similar to those on the Well-Tempered Synthesizer and SOB II records. -Elhardt


The similarity in the spirit of the timbres is striking -- while some of the sounds are not at all found on the original Carlos recordings, they sound as though they certainly belong on a Wendy Carlos album. I think you've done a magnificent job.

I'm curious --- did you design these sounds just from listening to the original recordings, or did you also have some information on what techniques Carlos was using in her patches?

I'm a bit new to synthesis (well, new in terms of not having spent much time at it yet; I've owned synths for decades but haven't had much time to play with them until recently), so I'm always interested in how people go about creating new sounds.

Russ
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For Elhardt (temporary thread hijack) -

Your Andromeda and Arturia Moog Modular and Ion patches are pretty impressive. I'm curious to know how you learned so much about sound design. Was it trial and error? Formal training of some kind? Books? All of the above? None of the above?
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juno6



Joined: Aug 25, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:

And an MP3 with the A6 doing Sitar and another exotic stringed instrument sounds. (Drums on from the MOTM analog modular synth)

http://home.att.net/~synth6/MOTM_A6_Indian.mp3


It´s funny, who could believe that sitar sound is an analogue synth?
This Elhardt is a very known cheater, he did the "Bahn Sage" synth, among other things... like that JP-6 guitar patch playing "Hotel California".
Very funny, he never post the patches, only MP3s... I want that A6 sitar patch, proof me wrong!
Otherwise, don´t waste people´s time Elhardt.
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

juno6 wrote:
elhardt wrote:

And an MP3 with the A6 doing Sitar and another exotic stringed instrument sounds. (Drums on from the MOTM analog modular synth)

http://home.att.net/~synth6/MOTM_A6_Indian.mp3


It´s funny, who could believe that sitar sound is an analogue synth?
This Elhardt is a very known cheater, he did the "Bahn Sage" synth, among other things... like that JP-6 guitar patch playing "Hotel California".
Very funny, he never post the patches, only MP3s... I want that A6 sitar patch, proof me wrong!
Otherwise, don´t waste people´s time Elhardt.


I never used to believe his posts either but he once posted some of his Arturia Moog Modular patches on another forum a while back and someone duplicated one of his Moog modular piano patches on the Nord Modular (posted here on electro-music...I've played it myself when I had my Nord).
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rh2y wrote:

The similarity in the spirit of the timbres is striking -- while some of the sounds are not at all found on the original Carlos recordings, they sound as though they certainly belong on a Wendy Carlos album. I think you've done a magnificent job.

I'm curious --- did you design these sounds just from listening to the original recordings, or did you also have some information on what techniques Carlos was using in her patches?

I'm a bit new to synthesis (well, new in terms of not having spent much time at it yet; I've owned synths for decades but haven't had much time to play with them until recently), so I'm always interested in how people go about creating new sounds.

Russ


Right, it's the spirit of style I was going for, not a duplication of patches, which would be hard to do since the architecture of the A6 is quite different. For example Carlos has 7 oscillators, while the A6 has 2. Though I could stack voices, I rarely did that.

I've been listening to Carlos since I was 11, so I know kind of what's going on. I just sat in front of my A6 for a few days programming sounds. Everyday I would get back to it, listen to what I created with a fresh ear and then reject what didn't sound good, and then created more to replace those. Carlos uses echo sometimes as part of the sound, noise at times, tunes oscs to all kinds of interesting intervals, I'd use the two filters in interesting ways, sometimes I'd use one filter as a 3rd sinewave osc, I'd use hardsync to get different timbres, I'd use the ring modulator on oscs tuned to harmonic intervals so it wouldn't sound metalic but would give a different sound, use the sub oscs, or combinations of the above, whatever I could to make up for only having two oscs per voice. And part of it is about recording, like what sounds to use with what musical lines, when to change timbres, when to use softer or more full sounds, and so on. Hope that gives you something.

Also as for looking for A6 audio demos on the web, www.bluesynths.com has about 3 audio demos of kind of full spacey sounding pad sounds that actually sound pretty good. The link is below, but you may need to register with the site before getting in. The 3 short audio demos that seem like they might be kind of similar to what you were looking for are "onflight", "flaeche", and "final_sledge".

http://www.bluesynths.com/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=1

-Elhardt
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jonkull wrote:
For Elhardt (temporary thread hijack) -

Your Andromeda and Arturia Moog Modular and Ion patches are pretty impressive. I'm curious to know how you learned so much about sound design. Was it trial and error? Formal training of some kind? Books? All of the above? None of the above?


Thanks for the compliments. I don't think formal training even exists for sound design really. Any books I read were at about the time I got my first synth or two, but all you can really learn from them are some basic sounds. The books are better for telling you what the different parts of the synth do and it's more or less up to you from that point. A lot of it comes from knowing how the different parts of the synth interact together, how to use effects devices as other elements, creating new ways to do something many times by exploiting little used features in a synth, getting into more advanced filtering, and also learning about what makes real world sounds sound the way they do. It's also about patience and attention to detail, and that means spending as much time needed to get the sound you want. If that means hours or days, so be it.

-Elhardt
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
and also learning about what makes real world sounds sound the way they do.


Patching basic leads and pads is easy enough but figuring out why a piano sounds like a piano or synthesizing a barking dog (or whatever) is where I get lost.
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

juno6 wrote:
elhardt wrote:

And an MP3 with the A6 doing Sitar and another exotic stringed instrument sounds. (Drums on from the MOTM analog modular synth)

http://home.att.net/~synth6/MOTM_A6_Indian.mp3


It´s funny, who could believe that sitar sound is an analogue synth?
This Elhardt is a very known cheater, he did the "Bahn Sage" synth, among other things... like that JP-6 guitar patch playing "Hotel California".
Very funny, he never post the patches, only MP3s... I want that A6 sitar patch, proof me wrong!
Otherwise, don´t waste people´s time Elhardt.


I'm not a cheater. I use the same kind of skill and abilities I use to create sounds on synths that I used to design, model, and render the Bahn Sage. I released pictures on the web and it was other people who made up stories about it. I of course eventually stepped in and admitted the Bahn Sage is not a real synth. Just as I admit that sound is not a real Sitar, it's a fake synthesized replica of one just like the Bahn Sage was a fake computer rendered replica of a synth. There would be no purpose in just recording a real sitar and saying I synthesized it. That would accomplish nothing but embarassment to me if it were found out it was a real sitar. I'm plenty capable of synthesizing just about any sound I want.

Likewise that was me playing a JP-6 running through a Johnson J-Station guitar amp simulator in my Freebird interpretation. I don't play a real guitar, and samples don't sound that way. They can't mimic the distorted sound of note overlap, nor the varying timbre on the same notes.

At this point I can't post any A6 patches because I don't have them downloaded on a computer. I've got two people who want my W. Carlos patches so I need to do it eventually. If you have an A6 and you really want that patch, then when I finally get my A6 patches backed up I can send it to you as long as you don't spread it all over the web. I should point out (and it was mentioned by jonkull) I have patches out there. Some people didn't believe my MMV piano patch was a synth, so I posted it. My MOTM recorder sounds real and that's on the web and there are others. Even if I can't get patches on the web or don't want to post some, as I don't like all my programming secrets out nor see them showing up shipped with synths (already had the Arturia people try to get my MMV patches), I can always record myself playing a sound and turning the knobs until it degenerates into an obvious synth sound. Can't do that with a sampled sound.

-Elhardt
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jonkull wrote:
Patching basic leads and pads is easy enough but figuring out why a piano sounds like a piano or synthesizing a barking dog (or whatever) is where I get lost.


One thing to know about synthesizing animal sounds is that most of the time they involve a changing pitch over time. That means patching an envelope generator in the oscillator and shaping it in a certain way. Whether it's dogs barking, wolves howling, crows crowing, cows mooing, cats meowing, or birds chirping, they all need that element. From there it's mostly animating the filter in some way, determining the pitch of the sound, and selecting the proper waveform.

Pianos are a pain and need a synth beyond the typical prewired one. The harmonic structure of a real piano is complex and so using a bunch of hardsync'd oscs to create something similar to fixed resonances seemed to be the way to go, in addition to somewhat complex filtering, also simulating the percussive thump of the key press, and having note decay lenght vary with the pitch of the note, and whatever else.

BTW, I have not heard the translation of my MMV piano patch to the Nord, so I have no idea if the Nord version sounds any good. I'd almost have to imagine it lost some realism in the translation.

-Elhardt
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
BTW, I have not heard the translation of my MMV piano patch to the Nord, so I have no idea if the Nord version sounds any good. I'd almost have to imagine it lost some realism in the translation.


Here it is, if you delete the reverb module it should run in the free G2 demo software, mono only I'm sorry.

The stock G2 verb is no match for the one you used on the MMV demo anyway.

I thank you for sharing the technique.
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
One thing to know about synthesizing animal sounds is that most of the time they involve a changing pitch over time. That means patching an envelope generator in the oscillator and shaping it in a certain way. Whether it's dogs barking, wolves howling, crows crowing, cows mooing, cats meowing, or birds chirping, they all need that element. From there it's mostly animating the filter in some way, determining the pitch of the sound, and selecting the proper waveform.

Pianos are a pain and need a synth beyond the typical prewired one. The harmonic structure of a real piano is complex and so using a bunch of hardsync'd oscs to create something similar to fixed resonances seemed to be the way to go, in addition to somewhat complex filtering, also simulating the percussive thump of the key press, and having note decay lenght vary with the pitch of the note, and whatever else.


So would an oscilloscope be my friend then? I assume you need to see what the soundwaves are actually doing rather than guessing based on what you hear...though I'm probably wrong. Wink

elhardt wrote:
BTW, I have not heard the translation of my MMV piano patch to the Nord, so I have no idea if the Nord version sounds any good. I'd almost have to imagine it lost some realism in the translation.


It lost a little bit in translation but still sounded good.
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rh2y



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:


I've been listening to Carlos since I was 11


That makes two of us --- it was the original Carlos and Tomita recordings
that got me interested in synths. I think my library had copies of the recordings.


elhardt wrote:
Hope that gives you something.


Yes, thanks! And you can probably add me to the list of folks interested in
your W. Carlos soundset when it's available, although I'd be more tempted to try to recreate the sounds myself as a personal challenge. Having it done for you kinda takes the fun out of it.

elhardt wrote:


Also as for looking for A6 audio demos on the web, www.bluesynths.com has about 3 audio demos of kind of full spacey sounding pad sounds that actually sound pretty good.


Thanks! That's a site I hadn't heard of. The demos do sound very good, and very spacey/ambient; just what I was looking for. I'm getting quite eager for my A6 to arrive!


BTW - have you made any albums? I'd be interested to hear.

Thanks

Russ
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:

Here it is, if you delete the reverb module it should run in the free G2 demo software, mono only I'm sorry.

The stock G2 verb is no match for the one you used on the MMV demo anyway.

I thank you for sharing the technique.



Actually I'm aware the patch was put up there, but I don't have a G2. Without an audio demo I'll never know how it turned out.
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jonkull wrote:

So would an oscilloscope be my friend then? I assume you need to see what the soundwaves are actually doing rather than guessing based on what you hear...though I'm probably wrong. ;)


Looking at the waveform won't help much. You're a lot better off looking at a fourier transform of the waveform which shows you the harmonic content. I use CoolEdit Pro (now Adobe Audition) when I need to do that. But even that may be of limited use. When it comes to synthesis it's mostly going to be doing things by ear. If you're after a certain sound then you need to understand why it sounds the way it does, and usually that just comes about by listening to sounds and trying to figure it out in your head. For instance if you try to look at the harmonic content of a cymbal or a kettledrum, it's a mess.
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rh2y wrote:


That makes two of us --- it was the original Carlos and Tomita recordings
that got me interested in synths. I think my library had copies of the recordings.

BTW - have you made any albums? I'd be interested to hear.



Yep Carlos first, than a few years later I got into Tomita. They're the two synth virtuosos. Nobody should even be involved with synths without knowing the analog synth works of those two like the palm of their hands.

And no, I don't have any albums yet. I have much of the music to one composed but nothing recorded yet. I do have tons of demos of different synths around the web, many of them making analog synths do things some people don't think synths can do. As can be seen in an earlier post by that Juno guy, some would rather not learn from my demos, but would rather make false claims on forums like this. Even when I list the equipment used and techniques involved, they're too lazy to try them out for themselves. Really, how hard is it to run a JP-6 through a guitar amp simulator and sound like real electric guitars as in the demo of mine he mentioned. It's like a 3 minute task.

-Elhardt
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
Yep Carlos first, than a few years later I got into Tomita. They're the two synth virtuosos. Nobody should even be involved with synths without knowing the analog synth works of those two like the palm of their hands.


I grew up listening to Tomita records with my father. I still have them but no turntable to play them on. I always loved Bermuda Triangle. Can't seem to find it on CD...
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
When it comes to synthesis it's mostly going to be doing things by ear. If you're after a certain sound then you need to understand why it sounds the way it does, and usually that just comes about by listening to sounds and trying to figure it out in your head.


Yeah, I figured as much. I guess I just need to develope my ears more.
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juno6



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:

At this point I can't post any A6 patches because I don't have them downloaded on a computer. I've got two people who want my W. Carlos patches so I need to do it eventually. If you have an A6 and you really want that patch, then when I finally get my A6 patches backed up I can send it to you as long as you don't spread it all over the web. -Elhardt


I´m still waiting for that sitar sound... not that I want my A6 to sound like a sitar (I want it to sound as electronic as possible), I just want to see if you´re telling the truth. If you send me the patch I´d be happy to inform the rest of the forum that I was wrong and you was right. Don´t tell me you can´t technically make a midi patch dump...
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sunny pedaal



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and i'm still waiting for his amazing realistic watersounds!?
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elhardt



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

juno6 wrote:
elhardt wrote:

At this point I can't post any A6 patches because I don't have them downloaded on a computer. I've got two people who want my W. Carlos patches so I need to do it eventually. If you have an A6 and you really want that patch, then when I finally get my A6 patches backed up I can send it to you as long as you don't spread it all over the web. -Elhardt


I´m still waiting for that sitar sound... not that I want my A6 to sound like a sitar (I want it to sound as electronic as possible), I just want to see if you´re telling the truth. If you send me the patch I´d be happy to inform the rest of the forum that I was wrong and you was right. Don´t tell me you can´t technically make a midi patch dump...


First of all, all my sounds were done on the synths I say. I don't understand what the purpose would be to claim a different synth than the ones I created them on and this current trend of just deciding to spread false rumors around about my sounds. Even when I have some patches on the net already I still get this. You think it's up to you to decide this? What about the other guy who already vouched for my sounds? The sitar sound and watersounds mentioned in the following post were relatively easy compared to the my MMV acoustic piano for example, and that's available for download if you don't think I can program a synth so sound however I want. So why couldn't I do a sitar sound? When I get a new camera I'm going to be making videos of how I did some of this stuff since I'm getting tired of people lying about all kinds of other sounds too I've also done.

I don't have any of my A6 patches on computer yet, so be patient. I spent months looking around for an A6 sounddiver adaption for an application I hate and doesn't run properly. I'm looking for an alternative. In the mean time it would probably be faster for me just to drag my A6 upstairs, record me playing the sitar (and watersounds) and start turning knobs so you can easily hear it's just an analog synth. I can do that soon, maybe even later today.

This is all pretty ridiculous. I put synth mp3 demos on the net into forums where most people claim they can tell the difference between a real analog and virtual analog synth, or between an A6 and a Voyager, or between a 2040 and 2044 filter, yet they can't tell the difference between an analog synth and a real instrument or sample of one? Where are all those golden ears now? Normally if you were in doubt about something I've done, all you'd need to do is track down anyone of those people, have them listen and they should be able to confirm that these demos have that A6 sound, and whether I'm using the Oberheim or Moog filters, and so forth.

-Elhardt
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