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Standard measurements in front panels
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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Yes, that's better. But don't think they have to be all in equal rows. It might make more sense to use something like this:

oo oooo oo
ooo ooo oo
o ooooo oo

ooo ooo oo
oo oo oooo
oo oo oooo

Or any of a number of other arrangements. Only you can know how you like to have it.

My main points are:

1) Can you see/identify which jack or plug you want easily?
2) Can you easily get to it to make a change when you want to? Consider worst case scenarios; when a majority of the jacks have plugs in them.
3) Does the planned arrangement of jacks help or hurt electronically.

Keep in mind that there will be wires going from place to place!<G> Behind the panel you will be going from PCB(s) to switches and pots and from pots and switches and PCB's to jacks. At least in most synth's this is the case. Very few use completely separate wires for pots, switches and jacks. There is usually at least some inter-wiring from components off the PCB. So just be aware of how the wiring will need to go from place to place. Whether it will need to be shielded or not.

FWIW, it's easy to get anal about this. And sometimes that's a good idea. But it is also true that many do get away with less than wonderful layouts and wiring practice. So don't be scared; but do try to become aware of the choices and possible results involved; so you know what to expect.

Randal

gusjdt wrote:
Thanks for the reply, I see what you mean. How about this:

Ins
oooo oooo
oooo oooo
oooo oooo
------------
Outs
oooo oooo
oooo oooo
oooo oooo

the rest of the jacks that dont fit on the 10x10 layout would go along the bottom, I could move the Mixer up where the Lag Processor is, shrink the text of GITM to make room for the jacks, and work from there.

I would like to keep the jacks on one side of the panel because I wouldn't want to mess with spaghetti just to turn a knob. That's for this particular project, since I'm planning to use it outside of the studio as well.

Would this layout fix the audio quality problem you mentioned? You kinda scared me there with the interference of the inputs and outputs. Or is it something else?
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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

That looks nice. Kinda reminds me of the old PAIA 2720. Or a squished Moog35. Both of those were planned for studio use.

Most performance synths tend to be flat-ish, so they are easy to transport. The Minimoog went one step further and folded flat for travel and up for performance. I've always liked the the Electrocomp 101 for its nice studio wood look; but with the ability to travel as a suitcase. Here's a couple links (The second one shows how the boards are arranged to make it possible to have short wiring and a slim case):

http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/_inc/picview.cfm?synthid=596
http://home.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/Web%20Page/EML.html

I don't know how your PC board(s) will be mounted; so it's hard to say whether you can slim up like this to make it easier to travel with. But again, I'd suggest giving that some thought.

I see Acrylic is once again the rage... Know that acrylic can be a pain to work with, and is often not as durable as one might first hope. Drilled holes can crack over time and as with most plastic; you have to be aware of static electricity build up. (FWIW, My first DIY synth in the 70's had black acrylic panels, and a Moog35 look with a solid walnut slant case.)

At any rate; your present plan will look nice and be relatively easy to build. I don't want any of my comments to discourage your making this first synth!

Randal

gusjdt wrote:
Yes, the case will be shallow, wide and angled, and made out of acrylic. Something like this. I would like for this synth to be a seperate piece of gear, and I don't plan on interfacing it with future synths except a sequencer.
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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Randaleem wrote:
Hi,

Most performance synths tend to be flat-ish, so they are easy to transport. The Minimoog went one step further and folded flat for travel and up for performance. I've always liked the the Electrocomp 101 for its nice studio wood look; but with the ability to travel as a suitcase.


Here's another link to EML 101 pics:

http://www.siliconbreakdown.com/eml.html

I'm mentioning this one because it has a single panel sized like yours; and is at home on the road or in a studio. It's hard to find online pics of its case from the side. The yahoo group has some; but you have to join to see them. At least this link shows the case in suitcase travel mode. The ramp of the main panel case fits against the ramp of the keyboard portion. There are two layers, making a sort of inner/outer case at the sides. This not only looks cool(to me); it also keys and interlocks the parts together so they don't shift around in travel.

Would also look cool in acrylic, methinks!<G>

Randal
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gusjdt



Joined: Apr 12, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yea, I thought about the acrylic cracking also. I'll just have to be careful when drilling the holes.

About the jack ins and outs. If I _do_ get the jacks to be comfortable using it the way I first designed it by spacing them apart a little more, isn't there some way I can shield the ins and outs to prevent interferance?

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ENDIF



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Great name! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha!

I have a song called 'Ghost in the Machine' I'll be sticking on my next CD:
http://www.endif.org/ghost_in_the_machine.mp3

That's a MIGHTY looking synth.
I especially like the patch bay.
=]

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ENDIF



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Thickness? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So if one were buying aluminum sheets to make faceplates from, such as, say, these:
http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-5052-H32-Bare-Sheet-0-08/dp/B000H9OYV0/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0843589-5404769?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1187703095&sr=1-1

Issues with others, such as a thin steel?

What thickness of sheet for each suitable metal would one want to use?

Recommended method of cutting aluminum sheets? Steel? Or is it time to find a real metalworker to cut to size, and content myself with mere drilling of pot, jack, and mount holes?

I did a Firefox word-scan for 'thick' in both pages of this thread, and only found one instance, with no details...

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Photon



Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 363
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aluminum is the way to go. It's light weight, strong, and easy to work with.
I would avoid steel because of the difficulty of cutting and drilling
in a home shop.
Some common and appropriate thicknesses for aluminum synth panels are .063" (1.6 mm), .094 (2.4mm), and .125" (3.2mm).

Blacet Frac panels are 0.063" aluminum and seem plenty strong.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Photon wrote:

Some common and appropriate thicknesses for aluminum synth panels are .063" (1.6 mm), .094 (2.4mm), and .125" (3.2mm).

depends on the synth foramt, i'd say. for 3U 0.63'' is enough. for more than 3U you probably want to use a thicker aluminium.
working with aluminium is pretty easy anyways.

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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have been using tin
(big old sheet of rusty tin )
anyone see any reasons why this might be bad?
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ENDIF



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Corrosion of pots and jacks?
Dirty transfer to cables, pots, other gear?

Aside from that, looks pretty awesome to me. =]

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ENDIF



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks. =]

I've ordered a blacet 1panel reject blank to use as a cloning template, and then of course to use as a panel, heh.

How about working with the aluminum?
I have only a chop-saw, a dremel, a hacksaw, and an 18v cordless drill.
Obviously I can drill holes as needed, but what's the best way to deal with the straight cuts?

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Photon



Joined: Mar 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If it's rusty than it's probably not tin. Tin is fairly resistive to corrosion from salt water (unless someone spilled acid on it Shocked ). It may be light gauge steel.
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Photon



Joined: Mar 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ENDIF wrote:
Thanks. =]

what's the best way to deal with the straight cuts?


The best way would be a shear or bandsaw. A hacksaw will do a 'hackjob'.
Maybe theres a local shop that could cut panel blanks for you on the cheap?
If you get friendly with your local sheet metal smith, he might cut some up for you on his lunch break for a case of beer. Heat and vent guys have sheet metal shears also, me thinks.


<edit> some basic info here:
http://electron.mit.edu/~gsteele/mirrors/www.nmis.org/EducationTraining/machineshop/sheet/intro.html

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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ENDIF wrote:
Thanks. =]
How about working with the aluminum?
I have only a chop-saw, a dremel, a hacksaw, and an 18v cordless drill.
Obviously I can drill holes as needed, but what's the best way to deal with the straight cuts?


Hi,

The best way is to have someone with more tools do that part for you! Very Happy

But if you add a good, sharp, new file or two to your tool list (coarse and fine, as one or trwo files) you can turn a hack job into a precision rank and file situation!

You're trading time for money. But you can certainly do excellent work by hand.

BTW, a 20 buck sabre saw (Some call this a jig saw) will take the pain out of cutting the aluminum to rough size. Get a fine tooth blade for the thin aluminum. Beats a hacksaw and is less expensive than other tools to do the job. (Squirt WD-40 on the cut line and blade for best results when cutting aluminum .) And when you file, do the opposite and use chalk on the file to keep it cutting well (get a block meant for concrete marking and layout at home depot))

Good luck! (But you'll develop skills to replace luck rather quickly, I think!)

Randal
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Photon wrote:
If it's rusty than it's probably not tin. Tin is fairly resistive to corrosion from salt water (unless someone spilled acid on it Shocked ). It may be light gauge steel.


yeah you may be correct
im going to strip it back and treat s it so it has a nice corroded finish
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Nosferatu



Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 234
Location: Planet Rock.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Standard measurements in front panels
Subject description: Added: What is a U?? to Standard panel dimensions-resources
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[quote="Randaleem"]
>The Euro Rack standard is promoted by this company: >http://www.proma-technologie.de/ You can visit this link to see dimensioned >drawings of Euro-rack components.

Actually what you refer to as a Euro rack standard are not a Euro rack standard, its a USA modular computer rack standard that became a international rack standard for computer modules.

If it had been a Euro standard it would for sure been made in even millimeters! Laughing
Perhaps it got its name from that Doepfer and AS using them?

Btw, excellent walk trough of modular sizes! thumleft
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neandrewthal



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Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know that the answer is out there somewhere in this forum, but I can't find it and it probably wouldn't hurt to have it listed here. So, can someone please tell me the MOTM font/size?
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Randaleem



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:
I know that the answer is out there somewhere in this forum, but I can't find it and it probably wouldn't hurt to have it listed here. So, can someone please tell me the MOTM font/size?


Hi Neandrewthal,

All the MOTM Panels I've seen made using Front panel Designer use the DIN1451, 1 stroke font, all CAPS at 2.5mm height.

Kind regards, Randal
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Randal Very Happy
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ultra



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lots of great information here, but i'm not sure if this one has been covered. i'm building a midibox seq, and having the panel manufactured by front panel express. the switches will be mounted on a sub-panel behind the main, and the caps are 7.5 mm across. how much extra space do i leave for the switches? thanks.

ultra
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funkyfarm



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

i'm found myself quite lost with all these milimeters, inches and all...

I'd like to know hole spacings for mounting profiles, rack 19" :

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

http://export.farnell.com/1264830/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=boss-enclosures-32275206&_requestid=152581

for sure no secret is revealed in the "Technical Data Sheet"...


my problem is that spacing is not regular (in fact there is two different hole spacings).
is the clangora panel a clue ?

(i guess it's inches)
1/4 5/8 1...


clangpanel.jpg
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Floppy



Joined: May 09, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

are you using the designer from schaeffer ?


there are macros with all the standard holes.
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BananaPlug



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'd like to know hole spacings for mounting profiles, rack 19"


The pattern repeats every 1.75 inches. Google for "rack unit" to learn more.
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wmonk



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For the 5U formats, some say [1] the actual height is 1/32" less then 5 times 1.75". Is this true for the synth modular formats (MOTM in my case), and does this apply to the width too?

Does someone have some basic-panels for MOTM, not in fpd (the Frontpanel Deisgner doesn't work in Linux, and however schaeffer mentions that it should work with Wine, it crashes when opening fpd files).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wmonk wrote:
Does someone have some basic-panels for MOTM, not in fpd

You mean like this?
http://www.synthtech.com/tech/m440_panel.pdf
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