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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
frequency shifter
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds very good- very clean!
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bubblechamber



Joined: Nov 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll take 2
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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 83
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jürgen

Count me in for a set of FS boards too please

Regards

Keith
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Level5



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great Sound - put me in for 2 sets
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Fernando



Joined: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Barcelona, Spain

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it sounds very nice Jürgen, thank you! cyclops
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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 83
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

keithwin wrote:
Hi Jürgen

Count me in for a set of FS boards too please

Regards

Keith


I mean two sets please. many thanks

Keith
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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 49
Location: VA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Frequency Shifter Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would also be interested in a set of boards. Looks like a good challenging project. Do you have a sign up list to buy them?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Frequency Shifter Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oscilloclast wrote:
Do you have a sign up list to buy them?


Not yet.
I'm still collecting responses how many people are interested, without any obligation to buy anything, such that I can make reasonable estimations about the price.
And don't forget, I still have one board to design, and the first one to re-design ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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hodad



Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 40
Location: atlanta

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be in for 1 board set.

Tom
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dar303



Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll take a set of boards too!
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Twin-X



Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes i want a set !
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 423
Location: PDX
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Juergen!

Where are things with your Frequency Shifter PCB project? Did you get the redone boards yet?

Romeo
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
Hi Juergen!

Where are things with your Frequency Shifter PCB project? Did you get the redone boards yet?

Romeo


Oh no, things don't go so fast.

Right now I'm on hollidays. Still doing a lot of board-related stuff (obviously), but mostly fun projects just now:
Bought myself a Roland SH-2000 which need a lot of work.
Rebuilt the power supply of a Dynacord TAM-19 (toroidal transformer, new caps, ...)
And made a visit to my wife and son, who are in the Black Forrest for health treatment right now.
Don't worry, I'll be back to the Frequency Shifter layouting soon.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Norman Phay



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 173
Location: North-East England
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you're keeping a list, please add my name to it! (I think I might have emailed you about this, but I don't remember)

Many thanks.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Im currently working on board 2 of the Frequency Shifter.

In my old FS-1, I have used the SSM2017 for a microphone preamp.

I know the SSM2017 is discontinued, but I've heard there are drop-in replacement chips:

INA 217
THAT 1510

Is it generally ok if I design the board for the SSM2017 (I have a couple of these left, and I'd test the circuit with these),
and you buy whatever you can get, NOS SSM chip, INA chip or THAT chip?
(Of course you can also omit the whole mic pream if you don't need it.)

I presume everybody should at least be able to buy _one_ of these types,
so I could go the easy way and not waste my time designing a full-fledged discrete mic amp. Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Juergen,

That sounds fine to me. In the US you can easily get THAT 1510s at mouser. PN is: 887-1510P08-U. They also carry the INA217: 595-INA217AIP

R.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
In the US you can easily get THAT 1510s at mouser. PN is: 887-1510P08-U. They also carry the INA217: 595-INA217AIP


Thanks for the info!

To pick up some ideas earlier in the thread:

I've added a MOTM and Synthesizers.com +/-15V connector.
I'll also include a rectifier and reservoir caps for an on-board PSU, like on the Tau board.
If you want any other connector, please let me know *now*, with a link to detailed specifications for the footprint.

I'll also add a set of extra all pass stages, which, when inserted befor the dome filter, will deepen the phasing in Barberpole Phaser mode.

The Dome filter layout is finished.

After a lot of thoughts and simulations, I came to the conclusion not to use trimpots here.

Here's what I put together:

The "inverter resistors" (for lack of a better term; I mean the two equal valued resistors that would make the opamp an invering unity gain stage if the positive input would be grounded) are made from 8-pin SIL arrays.
(The type with 4 independent resistors). You can use any value between 10k and 100k for these. Tolerance is 2%, but the matching between resistors is far better - better than individual 1% resistors.

(If for any reason you cannot buy such arrays, the layout will also work with ordinary 1/4 Watt metall film resistors, mounted vertically.)

There's a lot of board space reserved for the capacitors in the dome filter. Each capacitor sees 6 (six!) holes on the board, so you can choose between a lot of sizes and pinouts, including these "extended foil" polystyrene caps that have a diagonal pinout.

The idea is that if you can manage to get tightly spec'ed capacitors (like 1% or maybe 2%), you can use them, and skip the measurements we talked about earlier.

BTW, capacitor tolerances in the Dome Filter will not cause carrier feedthru. They will cause some feedthru of the "other" sideband (like, a tiny amount of downshift when you want upshift), which is by far not as unpleasant as a bleedthru of the Oscillator.

Carrier (Osillator) rejection is very good with the new frequency shifter - you can trim out the quadratic term just like the famous EMS VCS3 ring modulator can. (Background: Even with optimal setting of the offset trimmer, i.e. maximum suppression of the oscillator frequency, you often have a bleedthru of _twice_ the oscillator frequency - the FS-1A will have an extra trimmer to minimise this as well.)

Resistors for the dome filter time constants are composed of two individual resistors in series, just like the old FS-1.

I'll provide a table of resistor values to work with standard 1% capacitor values, plus equations for calculating them yourseld if you measure your capacitors, and start with odd values.

I better stop now or this post will be too long.

Let me know about the connectors soon.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isn´t the ssm2019 the "official" successor to the ssm2017?
i didn´t check the datasheets, but i think i read something like this...

would be cool, because the 2019 is available, even as sample from ad

best wishes,

tobias
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

b-funk wrote:
isn´t the ssm2019 the "official" successor to the ssm2017?
i didn´t check the datasheets, but i think i read something like this...

would be cool, because the 2019 is available, even as sample from ad

best wishes,

tobias


So much the better!

Looks like a drop-in replacement, too, at least at a first glance. (Let me know if there are any caveats - I have *not* studies the 2019 data sheet yet.)

So we have 4 options in the same footprint - it's a GO, then.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 583
Location: France
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

b-funk wrote:
would be cool, because the 2019 is available, even as sample from ad


hmmm...

you're sure it's still true ?!

hope you can populate this kind of project with "usual supplier"...

farnell offers a strange deal about 2019 :
http://fr.farnell.com/jsp/search/results.jsp?N=411&Ntk=gensearch_004&Ntt=ssm2019&Ntx=
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, i ordered some 2019´s a month ago as samples, and they showed up here quite fast.
should work...

and at least rs stocks them for about 5 € a piece

best,

tobias
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would this one be the right one ?
SSM2019BNZ-ND
http://catalog.digikey.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail?name=SSM2019BNZ-ND

3,16€
2,53€ when more then 25 pieces
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
would this one be the right one ?
SSM2019BNZ-ND
http://catalog.digikey.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail?name=SSM2019BNZ-ND

3,16€
2,53€ when more then 25 pieces


Looks like the right chip. (Asuming the +/-12V supply is a typo.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi guys,

i did a quick comparison between ssm2017 and ssm2019.

they are quite close, differences are:

slew rate 17 V/uS (ssm2017) compared to 16 V/uS (ssm2019)

noise performance 960 pV (ssm2017) compared to 1nV (ssm2019)

input voltage range +/- 8 V (2017) compared to +/- 12 V (2019)

there are other slight differneces for sure, but in general the 2019 is a good replacement, also suggested by analog devices.

best wishes,

tobias
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synthnut



Joined: Aug 15, 2007
Posts: 9
Location: San Jose California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Put me down for two sets, Please.
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