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Anything but sexist/feminist topics
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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am atheist too lolz Smile

But I think that, in county were gay marrige is aloud, I think Thay MAY NOT have children... what do u think about that?

kids will be poor when see that both pearents are same gender Neutral
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Yes Kassen, you are obviously an athiest, but what about gay men and women who are Christian? Shouldn't they have a choice?


I'm not a Atheist. I drift between agnostic, Ignostic and Gnostic (which I all find to be quite similar in a certain sense).

Anyway, yes, they should have choices, I'm in favour of choice for everyone, as long as it doesn't short-change anyone else (tax cuts for married couples means people who can't find anyone or don't want to find anyone, etc, end up paying more): So, if things were my way they'd have a choice to be Christian or not, have a choice in what gender (if any) they are attracted to, etc. I'm also perfectly fine with them choosing a religious leader who will chose to hold a ceremony for them.

Marriage in it's religious sense is fine with me, for any combination of gender(s), I'm also perfectly fine with marrying 1st century prophets or marrying more then one person, as long as it's understood that that's just a family/religious matter.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:

But I think that, in county were gay marrige is aloud, I think Thay MAY NOT have children... what do u think about that?


Again we agree! I am also against people (including but not limited to homosexuals and lesbians) having children.

I am, however, strongly in favour of having pairs (or groups) of people who are friends but aren't sexually attracted to each other adopt children together. As I understand child psychology stability is one of the most important factors and sexual couples are notoriously unstable.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kassen

wich one are u? lesbian? Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:

wich one are u?


not "u", "mu".

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just mean: wich one are YOU Smile what link you gave to me Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Papuna wrote:

But I think that, in county were gay marrige is aloud, I think Thay MAY NOT have children... what do u think about that?


Again we agree! I am also against people (including but not limited to homosexuals and lesbians) having children.

I am, however, strongly in favour of having pairs (or groups) of people who are friends but aren't sexually attracted to each other adopt children together. As I understand child psychology stability is one of the most important factors and sexual couples are notoriously unstable.


You don't half talk a load of crap Kassen! You are against people having children, however you aren't against adoption? What kind of liberal bollocks is that?? Shocked Laughing FWIW I am a very sexually active man in a very stable relationship- 13 years now, with two kids, unmarried. So where does that leave your philosophy? Wink Laughing

Oh yes and why can't Gay men and women have or adopt children? Where's the evidence to show that this is a bad idea? This kind of thinking just leads into the hands of those crazy neo-facist Polish church nutters who believe that the reason that their country is in such turmoil is because of western decadence infiltrating their once Catholic stronghold/ whatever. And it doesn't stop there........

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:

You don't half talk a load of crap Kassen!


Oh? I was just trying to go with the flow.

Quote:
You are against people having children, however you aren't against adoption?


Yes, that's right. I don't see any contradiction there. I'm expressing that I believe that;

a) the world is over-populated.
and
b) we should take good care of children.

I stand by those things and don't see the slightest issue with that combination.

I'm in favour of adoption because it's the only hard guarantee in the current system that the people who are taking care of the child are interested in raising a child as opposed to -say- in unsafe sex.

Quote:
What kind of liberal bollocks is that?? Shocked Laughing FWIW I am a very sexually active man in a very stable relationship- 13 years now, with two kids, unmarried. So where does that leave your philosophy? Wink Laughing


Well, what about it? I could also say that the gross majority of people in the world isn't a E-M editor. We both know that to be right and we both know that your existence nor mine disproves this statement.

Quote:
Oh yes and why can't Gay men and women have or adopt children?


a better question would be "where can't Gay men and women have or adopt children?". As far as I know they can in the Netherlands where I am. I think that's good, but only because heterosexual couples are allowed to do this.

I find this situation grossly unfair, why can't celibate experts in child psychology adopt children while people who don't have a clue about parenting can breed all they like?

Quote:
Where's the evidence to show that this is a bad idea?


As far as I know there is none and there is plenty of evidence that children in single parent homes have a excellent chance of growing up healthy which would have some predictive value with regard to same-sex couples.

Where is the evidence that it healthy for children to grow up in "families" with two people in parent roles that are sexually active with each other? I never saw my own parents have sex and hence I really wonder why this is a implicit requirement. Maybe somebody her watched his/her parents do the dirty every weekend and he or she will be able to comment but as it stands I find it a downright perverse and distasteful requirement.


Quote:
This kind of thinking just leads into the hands of those crazy neo-facist Polish church nutters who believe that the reason that their country is in such turmoil is because of western decadence infiltrating their once Catholic stronghold/ whatever. And it doesn't stop there........


I think the unspoken assumption is that children need to be confronted with "gender roles". I personally find that a load of hot bollocks as I've never seen gender roles do anybody any good. To me this would also imply that if straight couples have children they should be required to adopt traditional gender roles if they didn't have them before which I find a bit silly.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Papuna wrote:

wich one are u?


not "u", "mu".


For an Ath/Ig/Gnostic, you're fairly versed with your Mu! Smile Now, what face (or gender) did you have before your parents were born?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I would also be a bit of a Buddhist, after all, Buddhists, like Gnostics, hold that the cycle of reincarnation can/will be broken by acquiring wisdom so in a way that too returns us to the "questioning" or "looking" theme (which is why I'm most definitely not a Atheist).

BUT;

Rob told me Buddhists have problems with Nihilists (for reasons I don't quite grasp) so that won't fly as I don't believe in higher, absolute and external morality.

I thought Mu was a great word anyway so I'm borrowing it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

I thought Mu was a great word anyway so I'm borrowing it.

right, as in MU100R Exclamation it was a nice module, back then Wink I liked all the MU series modules by Yamaha.
Thanks Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No problem *with* Nihilists, only becoming one yourself Smile

That would kinda defeat the fundamental purpose of Buddhist teachings. But, the two can be seen from the outside as pretty damn close, with only a slight perspective shift being the difference (at least, between Nihilism and Zen Buddhism).
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I never became a Nihilist; I was born one. I never experienced any sense of greater, objective, outside morality and always stuck to what I myself thought was best, right or just, in practical behaviour I didn't find this made much difference.

I find it quite amusing that many (most) people do "know" what is moral and hold this to be timeless but that *what* they believe is or isn't moral changes wildly from period to period.

I am, however open to the idea that there might be a "objective morality" but that it's unknown or unknowable, a jump similar to the one from "Atheist" to "Agnostic" or "Gnostic" (at least in one sense of that word, it all gets rather confusing rather rapidly). This would allow us to coin the amusing term of "Anihilist", which would no doubt lead to many amusing misunderstandings.

;¬)

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
"Damn nihilists!" - Walter

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was just saing that:

gays and lesbian MAY NOT ADOPE A CHILDREN!

shoud I explain why?
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I for one would really prefer if people didn't spread that sort of discriminatory idea here.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Quote:
"Damn nihilists!" - Walter


Those were cool. :¬)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Antimon wrote:
Quote:
"Damn nihilists!" - Walter


Those were cool. :¬)


If we had a Kraftwerk dummy icon I'd put one here now! Very Happy

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:
I was just saing that:

gays and lesbian MAY NOT ADOPE A CHILDREN!


They can. And do. And the kids turn out just fine. (As study after study has proven.)

You know what else sometimes happens... sometimes straight parents raise a child properly, with all the love in the world, doing everything right, and the kid turns out to be gay Shocked ... why, imagine that.

Papuna wrote:
shoud I explain why?


Actually, why not? Go ahead, please explain. It should be easy to disprove every one of your arguments, one by one.

Sorry, but I think you'll find on this board that you will find very little support for this kind of prejudice (if you find any support at all).

James

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:

You know what else sometimes happens... sometimes straight parents raise a child properly, with all the love in the world, doing everything right, and the kid turns out to be gay Shocked ... why, imagine that.


Oh, well, better then becoming a musician, I suppose. :¬p

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok will explain with my bad english Smile

kid is inocent, he or she does not deservs ti have gay pearents!!!

of qourse sreights pearenst may have gay children to but...

I am just sorry when thay see that have only fothers or mothers! and as I said bifore: what if child will ask: wich is correct: boy+boy or boy+girl? or girl+girl?

shoud pearents say: "as u wish?" if so, boy may with mistake became gay!

or if thay say: correct is boy+girl, when kid will ask: "that means u are wrong?"...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As a schoolteacher I have to say: "I wish children don't have any parents at all!"

Wout
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dewdrop_world



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Papuna wrote:
kid is inocent, he or she does not deservs ti have gay pearents!!!


If a child has gay parents, how does that make him or her automatically not innocent?

I think that underlying this comment is a certain assumption... that gays and lesbians are uncontrollable sex maniacs who would not know how to behave appropriately around a child. Well, that simply isn't true. The vast majority of gays and lesbians make love in the bedroom, only after they're sure the kids aren't around. Just like straight parents!

Family courts in the US have often taken in the past, and still do take, children out of a loving household with a same sex couple, forcing them to live with abusive heterosexual relatives because blood relations are considered more important than a healthy home. In cases like that, an innocent child deserves much more to live with a gay couple that will take care of him or her than to suffer a fate like that.

Or maybe you think that gays and lesbians tend to be child molesters. Did you know that the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse cases are against an opposite sex child? Your daughter has more to fear from the youth minister at your church then she has to fear from a lesbian teacher.

Quote:
I am just sorry when thay see that have only fothers or mothers!


Did you ask any kids about this? They don't seem to mind all that much. The only people who get really upset about this are (at least in the US) false "Christians" who want to use "fear of the gay man" to convince people to give them money.

You know, the American Pediatric Association, based on recent scientific studies of the development of children living in same sex households, recently released a position stating that there is no evidence that children in a same sex household mature any worse than children of a straight couple. Actually all the reputable evidence proves the opposite -- children in loving homes grow up just as well, whether the parents are straight or gay.

Quote:
shoud pearents say: "as u wish?" if so, boy may with mistake became gay!


What mistake do you mean?

Do you think it is a mistake for a boy who is gay to grow up to be... gay?

Or do you think all boys are straight, and only become gay through bad influence from parents? (If that is what you think, you'll have a hard time explaining how I turned out gay.)

Quote:
or if thay say: correct is boy+girl, when kid will ask: "that means u are wrong?"...


Even straight parents shouldn't say this, because their child might be gay and they just don't know it yet.

If a child is straight, she will grow up to be straight. Even if gay parents try to make her gay, she will still be straight!

Likewise, if a child is gay, she will grow up to be gay. Even if straight parents try to make her straight, she will still be gay!

By your argument, parents should tell their gay children that only boy+girl is right. So when do the gay kids ask, "That means I am a mistake?" What should the straight parents say then?

James

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Last edited by dewdrop_world on Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
dewdrop_world wrote:

You know what else sometimes happens... sometimes straight parents raise a child properly, with all the love in the world, doing everything right, and the kid turns out to be gay Shocked ... why, imagine that.


Oh, well, better then becoming a musician, I suppose. :¬p


My parents got doubly lucky... I'm gay AND a musician!
James

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dude, I agry that MAYBE straight pearents have gay children BUT,
when kid see 2 fothers, he will think that it must be so, bifore he grows up and his psycho is not complected yet...
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