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 Forum index » Discussion » Diversity in electro-music
The MIDI Vagina Thread
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bernat



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
let's build a barbarella sex piano.


diagrams pls
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bernat



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
So now what? A fart controlled midi box? The louder the fart, the higher the frequency, the hotter it comes out, the louder it gets? I mean, where does one go next?

I'm on holiday for a week, so I'll let you chew on that one for a while, until I come back.


Thank you. I will think about this comment all week. Salut.
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:
bbinkovitz wrote:
let's build a barbarella sex piano.


diagrams pls


hm. i don't recall how the one in the movie actually worked. but i bet we could make a lot of money if i could remember.
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bernat



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seriously though, I want to apologize (a little) for this thread.

You see, I come from a messageboard-land where the customs are vastly different, where it is a common greeting and form of communication and affection to post short, mildly abrasive nonsequiturs.

I realize the customs in this land are different, where only humorless, technical, obscure, objective academia is appropriate. I will try to respect this in future.

Thank you for your patience.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
So now what? A fart controlled midi box?


I think it is inappropriate to compare the MVC with involuntary bodily functions. A skilled performer could easily get musically useful signals from a MVC device. I think it would be uniquely visceral. The audience would not need to know it was being used at all.

Not so keen on the MIDI bra idea though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:
bernat wrote:
Thanks for um, being supportive


*tap tap*, is this thing on?


Oh, it's on. You just didn't hear me groaning.

The cycling 74 list has a lot of posts (should you care to wade in) about performance artists trying on different articles of controller kit. Usually in the context of dance/kinetic performance art.

My wife does costuming for dramatic productions, among the many other things she excels in. Although her enthusiasm for geek things does not really extend into electro-music (she builds 10th, not 21st century instruments) I'm going to ask her about how to go about articles of clothing and how to possibly work controls into them. I know lots have been discussed, actually, and especially in the glove/shoe variety, but I can think of some neat ideas. Like resistive elastics which reduce resistance with stretching (think twisty dance moves) or bends/stretches.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bernat wrote:


I realize the customs in this land are different, where only humorless, technical, obscure, objective academia is appropriate. I will try to respect this in future.


You have not explored the forums that much, then. Wink I'll keep a straight face, if you will.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Haven't heard of a MIDI bra. How 'bout a theremin bra...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FWwvZVuaAsM

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
Haven't heard of a MIDI bra. How 'bout a theremin bra...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FWwvZVuaAsM


wow. bizarr-o.

wait, wouldn't that not work? because a bra is already close to your body? i'm confused.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
kkissinger wrote:
Haven't heard of a MIDI bra. How 'bout a theremin bra...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FWwvZVuaAsM


wow. bizarr-o.

wait, wouldn't that not work? because a bra is already close to your body? i'm confused.


My guess is that it is an optical theremin rather than an rf theremin. Perhaps someone here already knows the answer to your question. In the meantime, I'll see if I can find out.

Of course, such technology would not be limited to a bra... one could place optical sensors just about anywhere to control sound, lighting, etc.

How did you do the motion-sensing-outlet boxes at EM2007?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Incidently, the same sort of idea was done - albiet in a slightly more crude manner by prog-rock dinosaur's ELP, back in the late 1960's with a ribbon controller (use your imagination).


Obviously this would be a pre-MIDI device, and could be adapted to an analog sequencer, albeit in an unconventionally shaped housing. In fact, a Klee version would require only five "on" bits. Ten at the most (again, use your imagination), though that model of Klee should be modified to provide the ability to dynamically reverse the direction of the shift register.

Considerable redesign would be required to adapt it to the MCV - emulating the number of dying excess spermatazoa, even reduced by several orders of magnitude, would require at least an FPGA or two. That would be better handled through software, which could actually render effects such as dying gasps rather than mere blips of control voltage. With a robust system, the decay of flagellum motion could render a pannable channel of entropic noise.

My dry, nerdy two cents. Very Happy

Scott

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bernat



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Quote:
Incidently, the same sort of idea was done - albiet in a slightly more crude manner by prog-rock dinosaur's ELP, back in the late 1960's with a ribbon controller (use your imagination).


Obviously this would be a pre-MIDI device, and could be adapted to an analog sequencer, albeit in an unconventionally shaped housing. In fact, a Klee version would require only five "on" bits. Ten at the most (again, use your imagination), though that model of Klee should be modified to provide the ability to dynamically reverse the direction of the shift register.

Considerable redesign would be required to adapt it to the MCV - emulating the number of dying excess spermatazoa, even reduced by several orders of magnitude, would require at least an FPGA or two. That would be better handled through software, which could actually render effects such as dying gasps rather than mere blips of control voltage. With a robust system, the decay of flagellum motion could render a pannable channel of entropic noise.

My dry, nerdy two cents. Very Happy

Scott


I can't pretend that I know what this means. Is there a good intro on this sort of stuff somewhere? I wouldn't know where to search for it. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Embarassed Sorry about that. The Klee is a sequencer built off of a shift register. It's sort of a branch of devices Howard was involved with back in the good old days (they called them "Lunettas", named for the designer of several such devices, which are in turn based off of patchable digital logic.)

Details of it are spread throughout a super-mega-thread in the DIY section. The last few pages deal with art work for the logo, based off of the work of Paul Klee, for whom the sequencer was named (long story). Using an actual Paul Klee print would be very expensive.

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-12940.html

It ain't MIDI, it's my brother..... Laughing (I use LOL 'cause I'm not aware of any "groan" icons).

Cheers,
Scott

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
dynamically reverse the direction


Would be a very nice extra inversion / symmetry, will a Klee 3 be born in the Vagina thread?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
will a Klee 3 be born in the Vagina thread?


What better place? Very Happy

I imagine it would take a sort of skip clock kinda thing. Skip ahead one count less than the total length of the register, then make the taps available - CD4034 could handle that no problem. I thought about it with this one, but I figured it was at critical mass parts-wise already.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
shift register.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_register

i used to understand these really well but have since forgotten what i knew about them. i even participated in a live-action simulation of a shift register, where each person passed the "byte" along on each "clock pulse"!

also,

"A Klee Sequencer is a compositional tool that perhaps could be thought of as an almagm of the concept behind (but not the implementation of) the Triadex Muse coupled to a step sequencer. Klee Sequencing relies upon the composer's innate ability to discern patterns of musical worth from a variety of rhythms and pitches produced through a method that is often impossible to predict through interaction with the controls. Often, through manipulation of a single control or switch, the Klee Sequencer can reveal a new direction or approach to an already established Klee Sequence."

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id27.html
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:
it makes me immensely happy that as soon as bernat suggested something making little sense with pretty much no point, as a "lame half-joke", a bunch of people immediately got to work figuring out the minute details of implementing it. for all the gender divide talk, the human race is also divided into the nerds who would talk about this kind of stuff and the ones who wouldn't. i'm glad to be on this side of that line!


Sorry to perhaps disapoint you but the "minute details" that I posted were mostly a series a of dirty jokes aimed at a tech-audience.

I still think it'd be cool if this would end up getting build, especially if it'd be done by a woman with little previous experience with that sort of thing. Not because I think there is a urgent need for a controler in the shape of a vigina, breast or a bra but so that people would see that instruments and equipment can be build at home.

Basically what would be needed would be sensors (pressure sensors, temperature ones, perhaps those new ones that sense streching), something to turn the variable voltage or resistance of those into data (MIDI or USB, most likely, devices like that can be bought from sites aimed at the DIY scene) and a computer program to turn this into sound (not at all hard to write yourself if you experiment a little). This is basically the same for any controler and anyone with some dedication and a good idea could do it.

I think that's still a important issue; to me this stuff is very much about independance (from the general market in this case) and this website is very good at enabeling people to achieve that independance. No gender there, nesicarily, but still a important angle on these topics as they relate to this site.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
bbinkovitz wrote:
it makes me immensely happy that as soon as bernat suggested something making little sense with pretty much no point, as a "lame half-joke", a bunch of people immediately got to work figuring out the minute details of implementing it. for all the gender divide talk, the human race is also divided into the nerds who would talk about this kind of stuff and the ones who wouldn't. i'm glad to be on this side of that line!


Sorry to perhaps disapoint you but the "minute details" that I posted were mostly a series a of dirty jokes aimed at a tech-audience.


yes, well this whole thread pretty much is, isn't it? the combination of intelligence and humor in electro in general is what i was appreciating.

Quote:

I still think it'd be cool if this would end up getting build, especially if it'd be done by a woman with little previous experience with that sort of thing. Not because I think there is a urgent need for a controler in the shape of a vigina, breast or a bra but so that people would see that instruments and equipment can be build at home.


this thread has gotten me interested in analog sequencers, after reading about the klee. i asked smokris (my go-to man for technical questions, since i live with him and that makes it easy to include hand gestures and diagrams and stuff in the conversation) but he doesn't know much about the klee. if anyone is interested in helping me understand the inner workings of the klee and/or recommending and walking me through something really simple i could build myself, send me a message. i'm actually a fairly technically-minded person, but there are big gaps in my knowledge so very little of what i know is actually useful.

Quote:

those new ones that sense streching


i didn't know about these before this thread. i'm really into learning about ways to make electronic music more of a physical process, and more of a visual spectacle for the audience. visual projections are good, but i just love fun-looking instruments and stuff that requires lots of motion. doing a dance in a suit with these sensors in it would be a sweet way to control sound.

Quote:

I think that's still a important issue; to me this stuff is very much about independance (from the general market in this case) and this website is very good at enabeling people to achieve that independance. No gender there, nesicarily, but still a important angle on these topics as they relate to this site.


it's true that gender isn't necessarily an inherent part of the diy creative independence, but the more people who don't subscribe to/fit into/especially like the dominant paradigm get into diy stuff, the more variety of instruments and types of music we'll get. the diy mentality constitutes a decentralization of creative and aesthetic authority, which empowers individuals and makes creativity more egalitarian. and frustration frequently leads to innovation.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
a controler in the shape of a vigina


Embarassed I thought the idea was a contoller to be played by the pelvic floor muscles.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Kassen wrote:
a controler in the shape of a vigina


Embarassed I thought the idea was a contoller to be played by the pelvic floor muscles.


woah, yeah they have those bogus sex exercise things that look like a cross between a miniature barbell and a 3-d lewis model. you could wire one up as a controller, but the danger of electrocution might be a bit excessive.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbinkovitz wrote:

it's true that gender isn't necessarily an inherent part of the diy creative independence, but the more people who don't subscribe to/fit into/especially like the dominant paradigm get into diy stuff, the more variety of instruments and types of music we'll get. the diy mentality constitutes a decentralization of creative and aesthetic authority, which empowers individuals and makes creativity more egalitarian. and frustration frequently leads to innovation.


Yes, exactly. I think that's a very practical aproach. In the end then final steps will ahve to be made by individuals anyway. We can have same-sex mariages and establsih on a constitutional elvel that everybody has the same rights, etc, but that doesn't change a thing if individuals still don't experience themselves as independant.

In that gerard I think this site is doing very well so I have to say I'm not that woried, personally, abut the male to female ratio of our member list myself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is there such a thing as a MIDI dick? do we need to invent one? i mean, if women are going to be kitting out their bodies in such a way, then men are going to be left behind...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
is there such a thing as a MIDI dick?


Hmm, not sure if it would be workable due to electrostatic issues. Excessive handling would cause a discharge.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
Stanley Pain wrote:
is there such a thing as a MIDI dick?


Hmm, not sure if it would be workable due to electrostatic issues. Excessive handling would cause a discharge.




/Stefan

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
Stanley Pain wrote:
is there such a thing as a MIDI dick?


Hmm, not sure if it would be workable due to electrostatic issues. Excessive handling would cause a discharge.


In college, I worked in the music library for a couple of years. Some cheeky programmer actually put this error message into the cataloging software. It would appear if you were checking books back into the library from a patron and you tried to go back to the main menu without properly ending the transaction.

"Must terminate discharge before exiting."

Which tells me that either the programmer has a delightful sense of humor, or he had absolutely no idea at all what filthy-minded college students would think when seeing this.

James

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