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That's not a waveshaper ...
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EdisonRex
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Joined: Mar 07, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My T/G/T/S/H is languishing for want of a couple of zener diodes. I'm getting my next big order in (Klee front panel parts, plus the rest of the stuff that is missing) and my diodes should be in there too. Amazing how many parts I have, but none of that particular kind. The rest of the board is built. I've been distracted by the Klee, mostly, but the flurry of projects lately has caused a backlog. Not much of one here, as every board I've bought has some population on it, but I need to get off my ass and order the parts to finish. Sorry, Ian. I never thought that 5.6V zeners wouldn't be in my diode pile. I have 5.2 and others nearby.
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clickmrmike



Joined: Jun 08, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has anyone who has built a chaos board done anything clever with it? What I mean is, I've been using mine just as a source of random CV (which, it just occurs to me - doh! - it is) for VCO frequency and FM effects. But this seems like such a special module, I'd like to be more creative with it but I can't seem to get out of the same old box. So has anyone tried anything novel?

Mostly, I've been doing VCO drone stuff and seeing where the chaos takes me - kind of parameterizing the module, since it's different that the standard things I've always done and I don't complete grok the controls.

If anyone is interested in knob twiddling, I'll try to post some samples later this week.

clickmrmike
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

clickmrmike wrote:
Has anyone who has built a chaos board done anything clever with it? What I mean is, I've been using mine just as a source of random CV (which, it just occurs to me - doh! - it is) for VCO frequency and FM effects. But this seems like such a special module, I'd like to be more creative with it but I can't seem to get out of the same old box. So has anyone tried anything novel?

Mostly, I've been doing VCO drone stuff and seeing where the chaos takes me - kind of parameterizing the module, since it's different that the standard things I've always done and I don't complete grok the controls.

If anyone is interested in knob twiddling, I'll try to post some samples later this week.

clickmrmike

Hi Mike --

Well, that was the main reason I got some boards out, to see what creative stuff people would use them for. I find myself not being all that creative with them, either, but I'm just an electronics hacker.

I would say that you have started at the obvious spot, and hopefully you are getting some chops at manipulating the controls.

I've tried to describe briefly some of the things I have done on my website, so you might go through those for some ideas. I like to find patches using the space between the regular and the irregular, for example pulsing the inputs from an LFO and using the quasi-regular outputs for control signals. Also, using the outputs to trigger different events, i.e. derive a chaotic time sequence from the continuous outputs. (This is what I developed the TGTSH for).

You can also find thing people in the computer music business have done with chaos; just Google around. There are also some demo's on youtube.

And by all means, please post some mp3's.

Finally, never forget that this is a new field and you will be remembered forever as one of the pioneers! Wink

Very Happy

Ian
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fritz...id really have to sit down with a schematic in front of me and show you in order to explain or ask questions..i KNOW that as far as pins go on a schematic that connect to an IC that its easy to figure out most things....but as the schematics get more complex sometimes things arent so clear. IF I look at a stripboard layout its obviously very easy. BUT trying to take a schematic and make it into a perfboard layout involves a lot of decisions..its not always cut and dry. figuring out the best way to get five things to connect together and i am not always sure if i connect two things at point C if it will have the same effect as if i connect three of them at point A and two of them at point B.

i have no real education in any of this, so as i learn more, this will be less of a problem. AND EVERYONE HERE IS HELPING ME SO MUCH.

my only point was really that at this point, my layout work is far from trouble free Smile



i

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

clickmrmike wrote:
Has anyone who has built a chaos board done anything clever with it? What I mean is, I've been using mine just as a source of random CV (which, it just occurs to me - doh! - it is) for VCO frequency and FM effects. But this seems like such a special module, I'd like to be more creative with it but I can't seem to get out of the same old box. So has anyone tried anything novel?

Mostly, I've been doing VCO drone stuff and seeing where the chaos takes me - kind of parameterizing the module, since it's different that the standard things I've always done and I don't complete grok the controls.

If anyone is interested in knob twiddling, I'll try to post some samples later this week.

clickmrmike


i dunno if it was clever, but i had a nice patch driving the chaos board w/ short pulses, everything turned up, and getting some nice percussive sounds... like ringing a filter.

b
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
BUT trying to take a schematic and make it into a perfboard layout involves a lot of decisions..its not always cut and dry. figuring out the best way to get five things to connect together and i am not always sure if i connect two things at point C if it will have the same effect as if i connect three of them at point A and two of them at point B.


Well, this seems fairly easy to understand. You need to learn what a wire is. You need to learn this before you worry about other components and about circuit operation.

A wire is a piece of metal, in our case usually copper. A piece of wire has a very low electrical resistance, which, to start with, we assume to be zero. Most of the time this is a valid assumption. Since a wire has zero resistance it can not develop a voltage drop across it. This means that every point on a wire or on a group of wires soldered together is at the same voltage.

So it follows that that the pattern in which a wire is connected to all its components doesn't matter. So if you need to connect four points, A, B, C, and D, together, then you can run your wire in any pattern you want to e.g.:
A -> B -> C -> D or
A -> C -> B -> D or
C -> B -> D -> A
or any other path.

On a circuit diagram, a set of wires that are connected together and to a number of components is called a node. To wire up a circuit on perfboard, you can first solder in all the components, then wire together the components on each node, one node at a time. This is pretty much all there is to it.

There are a few situations where a wire is not ideal and this has to be taken into consideration. One example is power supply lines that are carrying large currents. Here you want to use short, heavy duty wire to make the resistance (and the corresponding voltage drops) low. In extreme cases you may need to use remote power supply sensing, as discussed last week.

There are time where you may have two circuits or subcircuits sharing a ground wire. If one circuit is very sensitive to its power supply voltage and the other is carrying a large signal current, then the large signal may get injected into the sensitive circuit. This is called a "ground loop". These may be avoided by wiring the ground nodes for each of the two subcircuits directly to the point where power enters the board, or even all the way back to the supply itself. (Separate "dirty" and "clean" grounds.)

Finally, with very high frequency or pulse circuits a wire may actually have spurious characteristics, such as capacitance or inductance to other parts of the circuit. These are not usually too important in SDIY work. Usually it is a good idea to guard against these by mounting and wiring bypass capacitors at appropriate points, usually right at the pins of the ICs carrying the fast signals.

I hope this helps.

Very Happy

Ian
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes it does help (as usual)

i am trying to get more and more foundation knowledge to work from.

thanks

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clickmrmike



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, here's an audio sample from Ian's Dwell2/EZChaos circuit. This is a very simple VCO drone, with the NL output of the chaos circuit patched to a CV input of the VCO. The circuit is driven by a LFO (triagle, ~ 100 Hz).

In the beginning, you here the drone, then the effect of the drive control. Then I left the drive control at a mid value and played with the damp control, and finally with the rate control. Note that the controls interact, and by no means does this simple example do much, but you can tell it's pretty cool.

WARNING: while the overall volume is low, the VCO seems to be driven into clipping in spots, which may do nasty things to computer speakers.

clickmrmike


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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

clickmrmike wrote:
Okay, here's an audio sample from Ian's Dwell2/EZChaos circuit. This is a very simple VCO drone, with the NL output of the chaos circuit patched to a CV input of the VCO. The circuit is driven by a LFO (triagle, ~ 100 Hz).

Woah! That certainly deomonstrates the wide range of sounds you can easily get.

Very Happy

Ian
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Fernando



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

clickmrmike, very interesting, thank you!
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filterstein



Joined: Mar 17, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know what the values for R28 and R29 are supposed to be?
I can't find them in the schematic or on the part list,
but on the photo of the pcb on Ian's site they are mounted.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

filterstein wrote:
Does anyone know what the values for R28 and R29 are supposed to be?

I do. Very Happy

There is a typo on the schematic. Where it says "repeat above (R24-R27)" it should say R24-R29. So R28 is 10k and R29 is 150k.

And they should be added to the component list, of course.

Sorry about that!

Very Happy

Ian
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filterstein



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, thanks!
I thought so, but i wasn't sure about the colors on the photo.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

filterstein wrote:
Ah, thanks!
I thought so, but i wasn't sure about the colors on the photo.

It never hurts to check.

I'm pretty sure the colors on resistors are much worse than they used to be. At first I thought oh well it's just my old eyes, but when I pull the really old ones out of the drawer they look fine.

Very Happy

Ian
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Dave Manley



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The subject made me remember this "CV twister" Grant Richter came up with:

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/DIY/Grant/CVtwister.html

-Dave
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Ian,

one more 5 Pulser is kickin.
it's perfect for my sound.
I like it very much.


twiddling the Knob by Hand gave me better results than with CV.
Must get the hang for this.
Fm on it is very cool to

Thanks a lot for this one !
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would it be possible to use the 5pulser for low frequency saws?

Can I short C1 for that?

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
would it be possible to use the 5pulser for low frequency saws?

Can I short C1 for that?

Haven't tried it, but should work OK. Just make sure your Saw is close to +/-5V.

Very Happy

Ian
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johans121



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just finished building my 5 pulser and all I can say is "WOW!". What a great sounding module! A very quick and easy build, very much worth the couple hours putting it together (I made mine from the bridechamber kit).

-Jim

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

johans121 wrote:
I just finished building my 5 pulser and all I can say is "WOW!". What a great sounding module! A very quick and easy build, very much worth the couple hours putting it together (I made mine from the bridechamber kit).

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I've been a bit depressed that this module hasn't gotten more interest. It's just plain the most bang for the buck you can get from any waveshaper. Scott Stites called it "DIY fire", but unfortunately he never had time to make any demos. Maybe you could put something up sometime? I'm very much interested in how others use it, since there is such a huge range of timbers and modulation effects available.

Very Happy

Ian
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
johans121 wrote:
I just finished building my 5 pulser and all I can say is "WOW!". What a great sounding module! A very quick and easy build, very much worth the couple hours putting it together (I made mine from the bridechamber kit).

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I've been a bit depressed that this module hasn't gotten more interest. It's just plain the most bang for the buck you can get from any waveshaper. Scott Stites called it "DIY fire", but unfortunately he never had time to make any demos. Maybe you could put something up sometime? I'm very much interested in how others use it, since there is such a huge range of timbers and modulation effects available.

Very Happy

Ian


How about the most obvious and obnoxious sweeping through the whole range over a droning bass note? Certainly my favorite way to use it Very Happy



Or some grungy bass:



Or some metallic clangs:



It's also fun to run gates through it and let it f them up.



OOH! I just remembered. Have you seen this demo from attorks yet? He puts it to fine use in a lot of his other videos as well.


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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I hadn't run across your videos before. I especially like the metallic clangs. Martin's stuff I've seen before -- Bridechamber has a link to it.

Very Happy

Ian
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:


OOH! I just remembered. Have you seen this demo from attorks yet? He puts it to fine use in a lot of his other videos as well.


This Video tells alot Imho.

i Love the 5Pulser ! just can recommend it to everybody, and recommended it to all my Friends anyway .
I would rename the Thread to 5 Pulser btw.
I had several times very much problems to find it when i sent a link.
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RF



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ian!
I really like this thing! I built a pair of them last week and really enjoy the sounds.

Here's a clip of it working on a single sawtooth note in.

bruce


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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice example of what it can do. Thanks for sharing!
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