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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
If I'd consider making a pcb for a flanger ...
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1109
Location: Loss Angeles
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a Marshall Time Modulator.. It uses three DBX boards, and the depth of the notch is what, 80dB? Something startling. You can kill speakers with the unexpected level of the self-oscillation. It also has a non-dynamic delay chip which IIRC, adds an inverted signal, so that you get strange notches (I should look into it and qualify that).

I'd vote for the Marshall to be the ultimate flanger. It's certainly the most extreme. Isn't the DBX board 2:1 compression, better than the NE57x chips? Or is a discrete VCA just better-sounding than those chips?

Note: The Marshall 5002A flanges better than the 5402, which had up to 400MS of 15KHz delay, for some reason. I've compared them.

Juergen, I believe that I have a couple of spare DBX boards if you'd like one for experimentation.

TZF is not hard, right? Just have a (static) delay that is longer than the shortest delay time of the dynamic delay, mixed together correctly.

The TDA is what's in the Solina chorus, correct? I had no idea that they were still available. I'd like to buy some and do a chorus clone (the ensemble effect is unbeaten, and the clock can be set to different rates, etc.). Could someone PM me that address in Germany where they are available please?
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
I bought a Dynacord TAM-19 Flanger today.

All that they say about it is true. Shocked
It sounds extremely soft, much warmer than the TAM-21 which I had a few years ago. Warmer than my Storm Tide, too; but not as extreme.

And it does some kind of thru-zero! Surprised

That is, the manual potentiometer has a center spot at 12 o'clock position, from which it modulates down in 1/x fashion on both sides. The delay time at center position is not that close to zero, though. But it sounds nice, nevertheless.

As a coincidence, the TAM-19 seems to exactly realize what I had suspected and voiced earlier in this thread, that the 1/x function on both sides of the (almost) zero point plays a crucial role, probably more than the approaching of zero itself.

In order not to confuse you, this does not produce the dramatic effect of real tape flanging or what the Tau phaser does! And yet, it's remarkably different from what you get with ordinary flangers.

I'll have to investigate this further ...

JH.


You mean like on Ichycoo Park by the Small Faces?
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Serenadi



Joined: Jul 03, 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
The TDA is what's in the Solina chorus, correct? I had no idea that they were still available


No, Solina uses TCA350.

The TDA1022 isn't available in Germany any longer (imho).
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks. I'll swear that I'd seen either a board or a schemo that said "TDA" something...
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tomcat



Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 141
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Serenadi wrote:
Peake wrote:
The TDA is what's in the Solina chorus, correct? I had no idea that they were still available


No, Solina uses TCA350.

The TDA1022 isn't available in Germany any longer (imho).


It still is in different places. You just have to look Wink
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tomcat wrote:
Serenadi wrote:
Peake wrote:
The TDA is what's in the Solina chorus, correct? I had no idea that they were still available


No, Solina uses TCA350.

The TDA1022 isn't available in Germany any longer (imho).


It still is in different places. You just have to look Wink


Good!

You know, the TDA1022 is the BBD chip I'm most familiar with; in fact, it was the only one available to me in my youth.

I still remember my first chorus/flanger. I didn't know about staggered tuning of higher order filter then, and built a high order restauration filter after the BBD by arbitrarily adding 2pole and 1pole sections. Several 1pole sections I'm pretty sure, because it's something you don't do in classic filter design. Later I scrapped that box (it was in a tiny plastic enclosure, it ugly "Lasagne" building style with insulating cardboard pieces between pcbs), and used the BBD chips for what was to become my JH-1 synthesizer. But I never got that specific flanger sound again, and have no documentation of it either. Sad

I don't know what exactly I wanted to tell you with this ... except that I'm convinced the TDA1022 is a nice little BBD chip. (It's inside the Dynacord TAM-19 as well.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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tomcat



Joined: Oct 14, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Btw. how many chips will be needed for one board?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tomcat wrote:
Btw. how many chips will be needed for one board?


For which board?

The Solina (other thread) will need 3 BBD chips (or 4 if it's goint to be a Synthex Chorus instead).

As for a flanger ... nothing decided yet.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could we perhaps get our hands on schematics for the marshall time modulator?
That's such a nice device and maybe something similar can be done with other ccd chips?
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hachiman



Joined: Dec 24, 2006
Posts: 56
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the MTM schematics are hopeless, there is a long topic about that one on prodigy-pro, cut the long story short, hopeless. I really want to have something mn3004 based now, cause the TDA2104 is pin2pin and available too.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hachiman wrote:
the MTM schematics are hopeless, there is a long topic about that one on prodigy-pro, cut the long story short, hopeless. I really want to have something mn3004 based now, cause the TDA2104 is pin2pin and available too.


Does anybody have a detailed description of what the MTM _does_ ?
Detailed description of features, etc. ?

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I used to own a Boss digital delay rack mount thing, and FWIW, I could get a really nice flanging sound out of it, but only when I inverted the delay. To me that's what makes a real flange effect, the fact that at that crossing point, the delays are the same, and that's when adding the inverted delay cancels everything. Admittedly, it's far more "musical" to just get close to that point. For example, when the difference in delay is .08mS everything will be gone below 12Khz.
But my point is that without inverting one of the channels, there is no flange effect, it's just a type of chorus/phasing.

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What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think MTM service notes are now avaible trough studio electronics.
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hachiman



Joined: Dec 24, 2006
Posts: 56
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think not Laughing
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tiego



Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 13
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:53 am    Post subject: TAM 21 shematics Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there
May grasp one defect unit, so i am Looking for Dynacord TAM21 schematics...
thanks
Tiego
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