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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
CE-1 clone ?
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I may be interested, but I don't know what the CE-1 sounds like. Are there any samples that show off what it can do?

Romeo
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mistercooper



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tonepad.com has CE-2 boards (probably pretty similar?) available for 17 USD.
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para



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CE-1

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CE-2

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softfin



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If there will be a run of PCBs for this, i'll participate without a doubt! Already dreaming of a stereo CE-1 Very Happy

Perhaps it would be wise to add some more features instead of simply making a clone?
If not, it would be nice if the board had some extra space and pads to make modifications easier i think...
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

softfin wrote:
If there will be a run of PCBs for this, i'll participate without a doubt! Already dreaming of a stereo CE-1 Very Happy

Perhaps it would be wise to add some more features instead of simply making a clone?
If not, it would be nice if the board had some extra space and pads to make modifications easier i think...


Right; just cloning something 1:1 isn't that exciting.
I want to make sure that it behaves like the original, though.
I'll probably add a preamp (see above). And maybe a link function to allow two boards to work in dual-BBD / inverted modulation mode for true stereo?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Peake



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Various modulation shapes are always good, or external exponential CV inputs; then we can route and patch to our heart's content.

If you want to get really snazzy, look into the concept of "crossover chorus" per Korg's digital FX. Only chorus the part of the signal above say 500Hz, and leave the rest alone. Stops the fundamental from swimming but leaves the shimmer.
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prophei



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this whole discussion is making me VERY excited. i would def buy in on a run of something like this. i love that old roland chorus sound....
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

exciting!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I received the BBDs from Smallbear; the amplifier chips are on their way.
Finding the right transistors (replacement types) will be a big issue.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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revtor



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aaah yes roland analog chorus... I've been loving this ever since my first synth ever: Juno-6.

rock on synth lords
~Steve

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germaniac



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey JH,

For this project you are planning to use the original MN3002 BBD, correct? After rereading this thread, I didn't find anything said to the contrary. I'm ready to do a buy at Small Bear and figured on grabbing a couple. And no worries, even in the (hopefully unlikely) event your CE-1 clone doesn't materialize, I won't mind having them on hand just in case of . . . a BBD emergency. Wink

Regards,
Joe
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

germaniac wrote:
Hey JH,

For this project you are planning to use the original MN3002 BBD, correct?


Right.

I was quite surprised to see them available still, with the CE-1 having such a mythological status, and apparently no one making a diy clone all these years.

At the moment I'm not sure *what* exactly makes the CE-1 so different from other chorus devices:
The BBD and amp chips?
The unique noise reduction circuit?
The brilliant one-knob chorus control?
The independent chorus and vibrato settings?
The heavy die-cast enclosure that symbolizes value?
The total thing that is more than the sum of its parts?

Whatever - I think with the original BBD chips available and enough information (and samples even) of the preamp chips, it'll be quite possible to make something that has the magic of the original.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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germaniac



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

At the moment I'm not sure *what* exactly makes the CE-1 so different from other chorus devices:
The BBD and amp chips?
The unique noise reduction circuit?
The brilliant one-knob chorus control?
The independent chorus and vibrato settings?
The heavy die-cast enclosure that symbolizes value?
The total thing that is more than the sum of its parts?
JH.


No doubt all of the above! (Including the heavy enclosure, which I never even took into consideration until you said it.)

FWIW, as a guitarist mainly, my take on the CE-1 (during minor repairs on a friend's), was that the loading effects of the input section (high freq roll-off?) coupled with the near-direct path to the BBDs (2nd harmonic distortion?) made for a sort of crunchy dark character, easy on the ears over extended listening. Also, the rather lo-fi anomalies seem offset by the fact of the 15-volt supply, making it sound somehow "bigger" than the typical 9-volt stompbox chorus. How all these factors affect a line-level signal I never had a chance to try. I'm looking forward to your analysis of what really makes the thing tick. Whatever modern extras you include in your version, it'll be great to have the option of a "stock configuration," with all it's endearing quirks. Cool

Regards,
Joe
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I believe Richard Thompson used one in the 1980s, so his Shoot Out the Lights album has some great samples - and his ex wife Linda!!
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germaniac



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A minor head's-up on the CE-1 factory schematic, here:

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=119

Electrolytic capacitor C42, a bit rightward of the output of IC3, is designated as .047uF. Doing some work on a friend's CE-1 (again), I noticed the actual PCB had a .47uF for C42. It seems to me the value on the PCB is correct and the schemo is wrong.

My friend complained of a "whooshing" sound whenever he used a high-gain effect before of the CE-1. I explained the noise-gate and told him I would see if the decay time could be decreased. But I found that something like .1uF for C42 caused too-abrupt decay and chattering of the gate, and anything larger than .1 made little difference in the decay "hangover." I wound up leaving the stock value. Those guys at Boss had their $&!# together.

Anyway, hope that's useful. (But JH, I wouldn't be surprised if you already knew about this error! Wink )

Regards,
Joe
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

germaniac wrote:
A minor head's-up on the CE-1 factory schematic, here:

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=119

Electrolytic capacitor C42, a bit rightward of the output of IC3, is designated as .047uF. Doing some work on a friend's CE-1 (again), I noticed the actual PCB had a .47uF for C42. It seems to me the value on the PCB is correct and the schemo is wrong.

My friend complained of a "whooshing" sound whenever he used a high-gain effect before of the CE-1. I explained the noise-gate and told him I would see if the decay time could be decreased. But I found that something like .1uF for C42 caused too-abrupt decay and chattering of the gate, and anything larger than .1 made little difference in the decay "hangover." I wound up leaving the stock value. Those guys at Boss had their $&!# together.

Anyway, hope that's useful. (But JH, I wouldn't be surprised if you already knew about this error! Wink )

Regards,
Joe


Thanks Joe.
I didn't know it yet, but I wouldn't have believed a 47nF cap to be an electrolytic, so I'd be going to ask sooner or later. Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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nikolo



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:15 am    Post subject:  hum Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I dont know if you know it but there are 2 differents CE-1:

another is this one:

http://www.schematicheaven.com/effects/boss_ce1_chorus.pdf

the first is http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=119
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nikolo



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject:  hum Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are you dead ?

arf Laughing
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: hum Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nikolo wrote:
Are you dead ?

arf Laughing


They are all too busy building their Klees & whatnots I guess Very Happy

welcome

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Jan
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nikolo



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you,
Im looking informations on part of this pedal (components...)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: hum Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nikolo wrote:
Are you dead ?

arf Laughing


Well, 2 months ago the doctors said I was in danger of that, but now they are taking care of my high blood pressure. Wink

The CE-1 clone project is not forgotten.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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nikolo



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: yep Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy

In fact Im found of theses pedals..

Razz Laughing

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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a thought JH.... Not to suggest that you need more work to do at present (I'm already in line for both of your current pcb projects! Thanks again!)

In keeping with the "best of" concept with the fixed filters board (hope that one is still a viable idea!)....

The CE-1 is fantastic, particularly as a "sweepy", more "effected" sounding chorus. Another incredible chorus which is invaluable for keys, guitar, and general studio purposes (but also is WAYYYY overpriced on the vintage market) is the SDD-320, which you've already cloned once....

How about a board giving you the "best of" the Roland modulation boxes? CE-1, SDD-320, maybe one of the classic roland flangers/phasers?

I confess that your work with the SDD made me drool years ago, so even a standalone of the Dimension would be an incredible value.... Wink

Gav
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gavgomad wrote:

I confess that your work with the SDD made me drool years ago, so even a standalone of the Dimension would be an incredible value.... Wink
Gav


The Dimension D?

I think I would really go for a clone of this - with a different compander probably - but isn't there a Behringer pedal coming out which is supposed to emulate that? It wouldn't make sense to buy a PCB if you can have the whole thing for almost the same price ...
And, I think I've seen someone else is working on a Dim D cone PCB on some other forum. Forgot where Ive seen it, but you'll certainly find it.

How about this: If no one offeres a convincing Dim D emulation (either as PCB, or as a finished FX) within the next 6 months, I'll go for it.
Remind me if I forget. Smile

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH!

I remember the halcyon days when it was just the S-DIY list.... So many boards, so little time! Wink

I'll start searching for the Dimension D project.... I know many were following Scott Stites' lead and putting together a "C" clone, but I hadn't seen much activity on the D....

To tide me over, I have my CE-300, which is very nice, but doesn't seem to have quite the same sound as a Dimension D....

It's one of those sounds that personally I'd like to keep in the analog realm instead of digital - there's a certain warmth to those circuits, provided one can keep the noise down!

Thanks again for all your hard work and inspiration, JH!

Gav.
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