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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
Buchla 261e mystery!
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nosferatu wrote:
The DX7 are Ac coupled in their algos.


Ok, didn't know that.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Nosferatu



Joined: Jul 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

del
Last edited by Nosferatu on Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If feedback is used in digital FM or PM, the difference is very big.
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REwire



Joined: Dec 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm going to add a 291e Triple Morphing Filter to my setup but also considering a 261e as well.

The 261e is meant to be pitch controlled by the 200e Buss, which I won't have. Can the single CV Input on the Principle OSC be scaled to 1v/Oct? My vintage 259 has a dedicated CV Keyboard input that works exactly at 1v/oct. These new ones seem meant to be used with the midi preset module, not standalone as my 259 does.

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REwire



Joined: Dec 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Following up my own post, I just demo'd a 200e and brought my vintage 259 over to compare and run it through as well.

I was first going to see if I liked the 291e filter, Not. It was far weaker and not as cool as any of the euro filters I have: Frequensteiner, Plan-B's Model 11 and 12 and a few Doepfer's. Any three of them in series would outdo it. The MARF stuff is nice, but all that stepping can be accomplished with my sequencer and to be honest, when I heard it in operation, even my 259 sounded like a banjo.

On to the 261e -There is definitely a similarity in sound to my 259, but it's like a digital copy of it. You can hear the digital resonance and glassiness in everything it does. It's less analog than a NordLead but that made me love it! It is such a great combo to my 259 and the rest of my Osc's, it's the most functional digital osc in the world. As for how I'm going to control it. the CV input needs 1.2v/Oct so I need either a CV amp to boost my incoming CV or another Kenton ProSolo just for it.

What impressed me most was the 259e, the wavetable osc. It had all the digital metallicness of the 261e but so many more sound possibilities. I wish the BlacetMiniwave had morph ability.

So the 261e is on order and a 259e is in search.

Dan

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REwire



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: 259 and 261e together Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, here's my 261e in a box next to a 259. Look how alike they are, who would guess one was 30+ years old. I had to run the CV through a amplifier to get it up to 1.2 volts. It's pretty cool sounding. The Main Osc is capable of twisting the sound far greater than the 259 can, though not capable of analog sounds, the sound of the Modulation Osc is actually much more analog and I like manipulating the wave selector to shift between shapes.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

For years now Buchla has confounded me as a super expensive system that seemed out of reach. Incorportating individual modules into my existing setup makes me feel I have the best of both worlds and unlimited potential. Still expensive at $1800 for the Osc and Case.

Dan

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cbm



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 259 and 261e together Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

REwire wrote:
The Main Osc is capable of twisting the sound far greater than the 259 can, though not capable of analog sounds,


Any chance of some 259/261e comparison sound files, with approximately the same settings?


Quote:

the sound of the Modulation Osc is actually much more analog and I like manipulating the wave selector to shift between shapes.


I also think the waveshaping on the 261e mod oscillator sounds quite good.

-C
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Nosferatu



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When you sweep the shape knob from center pos does it evolve from
50%PW (square) to about 10% PW? Also are the PW a bit rounded on
the edges at all PW settings?
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REwire



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's not really nice sounding PWM on the 261e Modulation OSC. I have to attenuate my incoming Sine LFO to very small voltage and set the waveform selector right between the Square and Pulse. The sound does not nicely flow, it seems to step, as if you were merely morphing from one to the other, not actually moving the width of the rectangle.
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Nosferatu



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now, THAT was a surprise! Shocked
Not god at all, at least smooth transition
of a rounded PW was to be expected.

Tanks for the info.
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cbm



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not quite that grim. While the 261e is not the thing I would first think of for rich PWM, I think that the mod osc waveshaper is a useful thing to have around.

Here is a sample of the 261e mod osc waveshaper being swept. At first the sweep is limited to roughly the PWM section of the sweep, then I increase the sweep to encompass the whole range. Finally I reduce the sweep towards the low harmonic content range.

Two versions of the same clip, one .mp3 and one .wav:
http://www.xfade.com/Buchla/Noodles/200e_PWM.mp3
http://www.xfade.com/Buchla/Noodles/200e_PWM.wav

-C
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Nosferatu



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm, seams Rewire has something wrong with his oscillator if it jumps between PW settings because the MP3 file sounds allright, as PWM should
do.

However the wave looks really strange? Sort of a highpass filtered PW!? Is it the MP3 coding? No? Can you cut down the wave file to 200k, a couple of cyckles of PW are more then enough?
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REwire



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nosferatu wrote:
Hmm, seams Rewire has something wrong with his oscillator if it jumps between PW settings because the MP3 file sounds allright, as PWM should


Depends on your perception of what PWM is supposed to sound like. CBM's clip sounded nice and I can get the same thing, but it was more akin to waveshaping, not PWM.

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Nosferatu



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Depends on your perception of what PWM is supposed to sound like.


Well PWM have basically only one sound so its hard to make it sound like
anything else then PWM.The different characters of PWM depends basically
on the edges, whether they are rounded and or slanting. Im talking of
basic PWM.
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REwire



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's my 261 Mod osc, positioned right between the Pulse and Square and then LFO Sine applied in varying amounts (mp3 320mbps):

http://www.rewiremusic.com/Audio/Demos/Buchla/261e_PWM.mp3

Here's my AnalogueSystems RS95e with a Pulse and the same Sine LFO applied in larger amounts to PWM.

http://www.rewiremusic.com/Audio/Demos/Buchla/AS_RS95e_PWM.mp3

The 261e does not have direct control of the width, it is merely switching between a Pulse and Square that are preset. Still, I like the ability to go from Sine to Pulse.

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Nosferatu



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm, well, i dont know but either you are actually modulating the PW
so deep it sounds like switching or you have a faulty module? Chris PWM
dont sound like yours thats quite clear.

You don't think that your 261 sounds a bit strange compared to Chris?

The difference between the 261e and the RS95 are quite obvious since
the RS sweeps from 0 to 100% and the 261e can only sweep from
50 to 5%. So if you limit the range on the Rs you will get the same
effect, Rs a bit sharper and the Buchla a bit duller.
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REwire



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What I did before was isolate just the Square and Pulse of the four waveforms possible. A bigger range of sounds is produced by sweepeing the whole spectrum like this.

First a Manual Sweep then Triangle LFO then Saw LFO:
http://www.rewiremusic.com/Audio/Demos/Buchla/261e_PWM2.mp3

BTW, you started all this, and even got me interested in adding a 261e to my setup. Are you planning on buying one of these or a system?

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Nosferatu



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
"REwire"] A bigger range of sounds is produced by sweepeing the whole spectrum like this.

http://www.rewiremusic.com/Audio/Demos/Buchla/261e_PWM2.mp3
But that sounds all right! I cant hear any stepping/morphing problem
you say you have?
Quote:

BTW, you started all this, and even got me interested in adding a 261e
to my setup.

Glad i could help you into open up your wallet a bit. Wink
Quote:
Are you planning on buying one of these or a system?

Who knows!
Anyway thanks for providing us all with nice sound samples.
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