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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
Old Midwest Electronics VC Analog Delay info needed....
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3vcos



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Old Midwest Electronics VC Analog Delay info needed.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone have the info on Thomas Henry's old vc analog delay? Thomas henry pointed me to the wayback machine which displays some of the information but I still need a schematic or parts layout (I found the pcb image).

Any help appreciated. I have some SAD4096 bbds that I'd like to use.

Thanks,
Tim
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm sure that I have this but it's in one of a dozen piles of papers. I'll have a gander over the next couple of evenings.
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philpeery



Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 125
Location: new jersey, usa

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: MAP VC delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Tim,

I have a copy of the full project doc at home. I am traveling for work until thursday or friday. As soon as I get home, I will make a copy for you. PM me your email address so I can send it!

By the way, the article I have has the schematics, pcb layout and parts placement, and an excellent description of how the circuit works.

Regards,
Phil
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ickystay



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 139
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How nice it would be for a project using the new V3205D's.
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ickystay wrote:
How nice it would be for a project using the new V3205D's.


I'm sure that Behringer would be only too pleased (and proud) to do this for you! Very Happy
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philpeery



Joined: Nov 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: VC analog delay
Subject description: can we squeeze the new chip into the design???
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I am planning on taking a look at the chip specs for the v3205D to see if it can't be adapted to the VC delay design from our good pal TH. The modulation and the VC capability in his design are really cool. If the clocking and general signal level requirements are similar to the SAD 4096 chip, I'll bet a burger and a beer that it would work.....
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The MN3XXX chips have always been rated for a much lower clock freq than the SAD devices. That doesn't necessarily mean they can't be clocked that high - I think it fell more in line with their BBD clocks. I personally have clocked the bejesus out of an MN3207 with no ill effect.

The trick, of course, is providing a good buffered clock signal to keep the intrinisic capacitance of the BBD from deflating your nice crisp pulses, and the 3205 is going to have plenty'o'that. Not a prob - any good CMOS buffer should do the trick.

The thing that ticks me off about the BBD reissues is they are only concentrating on the low voltage BBDs - the MN32XX's rather than the MN30XX's. You can coax the 32XXs to play nice, but the MN30XX's I think are a bit easier to deal with, level/headroom-wise. The V3205 input specs are certainly going to be different than the SAD devices.

As an aside, I have a Midwest Analog Delay built by Studs himself, only it is without SAD4096. It sounds great driving a SAD1024, though!

Cheers,
Scott

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philpeery



Joined: Nov 08, 2006
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Location: new jersey, usa

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the info. I think the TH VCAD uses 4041 quad buffers on the clock output, but I do recall reading somewhere the the SAD chips were clocked faster. So I will get to have some clocking play time! I do have a handfull of MN3005's, I could also play around with those too!

The SAD1024 delay (built by Studs himself, cool!) you mention, was it by chance the one that originally showed up in Polyphony is June of '84 and again in EMC the Reprints? If so, it sounds like another one I should build!

Between this BBD fun, the Mankato, THSCM, THQFG, and the AS21C book, I will NEVER get the entry hall and living room painted!

Phil
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3vcos



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, I have some sad4096s and sad1024s that I'd like to use for this delay.


Scott, what do you think of this delay? How does it sound? Do you have any pics of the board?

Thanks! Tim
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The SAD1024 delay (built by Studs himself, cool!) you mention, was it by chance the one that originally showed up in Polyphony is June of '84 and again in EMC the Reprints? If so, it sounds like another one I should build!


Nope, this is the SAD4096 design you're talking about. It had a SAD4096 in it, but the IC was defunct. I just rigged some wires into a breadboard and wired a SAD1024 from the 4096 socket (took some doing, obviously the pinout is quite different between the two). This arrangement is great for really tight flanging, and the chorus was beautiful, too. Long delays.....no Very Happy


Quote:
Scott, what do you think of this delay? How does it sound? Do you have any pics of the board?


I did at one time - I can take more. It's sitting in my production facility right now (adjacent to my laboratory, situated directly below the kitchen). It's the whole thing - board and panel.

It works just great - nice noise reduction going on there.

One of these days I'll make a little daughter board to slip in there with the SAD1024 on it.

Take care,
Scott

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3vcos



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Phil,

Thanks very much for the informationa dn scans. Very kind of you to take the time.

If one uses the waybackmachine ( www.waybackmachine.com ) you can see that Mr. henry had freely posted all the info for this VC Delay. Unfortunately, the internet archives only saved part of the info so I couldn't build the delay. Thanks Phil for making this available.

Perhaps Mr. Henry wouldn't mind the info being posted free for everyone (well everyone to look at and to build for those fortunate enough to have a SAD4096).



(The Other) Tim
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Thomas Henry



Joined: Mar 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3vcos wrote:

Perhaps Mr. Henry wouldn't mind the info being posted free for everyone (well everyone to look at and to build for those fortunate enough to have a SAD4096).


Go ahead and post away (but only here on EM).

And I sure don't want to be a wet blanket, but keep in mind that the SAD-4046 has a notoriously short shelf life. Does anybody here remember what I went through with my purchase of some 1000 units, still sealed in tubes from Reticon? Hell, for the price I paid, I could have bought a new Plymouth Volare which would have lasted at least twice as long before the body rusted out.

Thomas Henry
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philpeery



Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 125
Location: new jersey, usa

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Go ahead and post away (but only here on EM).

Thanks Thomas! When I get a few minutes over the next day or so (I've got a bagpiping gig/parade for the holiday!), I will post the PDF I created that Dan is referring to. And yes, it will be exlusively for the EM crowd!

Hmm, interesting that you mention the self life of the SAD4096. That concerns me. I would hate to go to the trouble to put together the entire project only to have it scuttled by a DOA delay chip. Anyone have an idea if there is an eval/test ciruit that would be quick and easy to breadboard to verify these chips are good?

Everyone have a great holiday (in the US that is!)

Phil
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philpeery



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Location: new jersey, usa

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: TH VCAD project pdf...
Subject description: here it is!
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Here is the PDF of the TH VCAD! I have scanned the entire 3 packet document set, and created a single PDF from it. Please remember that the design is owned and copyrighted to Mr. Thomas Henry, and should not be used for anything other than personal use. All credit and kudos for the design belong rightfully to him! Thanks Thomas for agreeing to let me post it here.

Overall, the scans seem to be pretty clean, but the circuit tracing graphic on page 9 is tough to read. My original is not that great, and the diagram looks about the same, so that is unfortunately as good as that page will get. The parts placement guide, on the next to last page, it very readable, and I think this is the one that counts.

If you plan on making a PCB from the included layout, PLEASE make sure you measure the IC pads to make sure that they are spaced properly and are the right size. I believe my HP software may have made the images a touch larger when the scan was converted to PDF. It's probably close, but it is best to check to be sure. As Norm from TOH would say, measure twice, cut once. Good advice for woodworking AND musical electronics, don't you think?

If you have any issues reading the PDF, please PM me and I will send a copy to you directly!

Good Building!
Phil


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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Many thanks for the details, I was unable to find my papers on this. We fly to Spain in the morning (up at 2am so that my wife has enough time to get ready - you know the score!!) so great to have some decent reading matter for the flight.
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