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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Schulte Compact A Phasing
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
thanks J
probably why it isnt working right now

any other decent substitutions?
i ordered 1458s and i got some 16pin IC, no other 1458s from local vendors.
i noticed mention of 4558s earlier in the thread, i have some here and might try, but if you can think of anything else im all ears


I'm stupid. It's not the 741 you wanted to replace, but that single 1458 in the circuit. Go for a LM358. Haven't tested it, but should work. 4558 should be ok too.

JH.

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Luka



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool, yes i have 741 in all places where they should be
ok 4558 seems to be working in U5 but..

i have some strange things goign on
the voltage divider feeding pin 3 of the U5 is sending 13.5 volts. the resistors in my voltage divider are 10k for R12 and 8k4 for R13. I dont understand why could be causing this. I didnt have any 9k1 resistors so i have 2 in parallel making the 8k4 but it is definately 8k4. Makes no sense to me.

This is causing some problems down the line as i have 13.5 feeding into my lamps. I have been using my depth pot to ensure no more than 7 gets to them for now.

some details on my build
My PSU is running from a 16v ac/ac wall wort, PSU is putting out +/- 15
other parts of circuit seem ok

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
cool, yes i have 741 in all places where they should be
ok 4558 seems to be working in U5 but..

i have some strange things goign on
the voltage divider feeding pin 3 of the U5 is sending 13.5 volts. the resistors in my voltage divider are 10k for R12 and 8k4 for R13. I dont understand why could be causing this. I didnt have any 9k1 resistors so i have 2 in parallel making the 8k4 but it is definately 8k4. Makes no sense to me.

This is causing some problems down the line as i have 13.5 feeding into my lamps. I have been using my depth pot to ensure no more than 7 gets to them for now.

some details on my build
My PSU is running from a 16v ac/ac wall wort, PSU is putting out +/- 15
other parts of circuit seem ok


It's been a long time since I designed this, so I can't say why I've chosen this or that specific resistor value without re-calculating a lot of things. But be assured that when I chose an odd value like 9k1 (and not its neighbours 10k or 8k2), there was a reason for it!

9k1 is easy to get with 10k || 100k, btw.

In general, if you don't have value x in the drawer, choose the next larger value y, calculate z = 1/(1/x - 1/y), and then use y || z instead of x.
As z is normally much bigger than x or y, z only needs to be approximately what you've calculated, without making a big error for y || z.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think i used a 100k and 10k but the tolerances were not so tight
ill goto the shop and get a 9k1 today


but even with 8k4 in place my calculations show that it should be dividing 15v down to 8.1V instead of 13.5V

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:

but even with 8k4 in place my calculations show that it should be dividing 15v down to 8.1V instead of 13.5V


Makes sense.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok swapped for 9k1 but the divider still isnt working, it comes out at 13.6v on U5 pin3
could something in the circuit interupt the divider
i resoldered the 10k in the divider and checked for shorts when i put the 9k1 in

:/

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
ok swapped for 9k1 but the divider still isnt working, it comes out at 13.6v on U5 pin3
could something in the circuit interupt the divider
i resoldered the 10k in the divider and checked for shorts when i put the 9k1 in

:/


Your R12 is 100k instead of 10k. Not 100% sure, but almost.

JH.

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Luka



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Embarassed
strange thing is it measured 10k when in pcb

and i just realised it is a systematic error too
lots to desolder

thanks jurgen

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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tip to everyone, turn the lights off or cover the lamps when trying to test the unit. unit works great now hehe.

jurgen am i correct in assuming that the footpedal bypass input should connect to the same points on the pcb as the bypass mom switch points?

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
tip to everyone, turn the lights off or cover the lamps when trying to test the unit. unit works great now hehe.

jurgen am i correct in assuming that the footpedal bypass input should connect to the same points on the pcb as the bypass mom switch points?


Yes, two (or more) momentary switches can be connected in parallel.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
tip to everyone, turn the lights off or cover the lamps when trying to test the unit. unit works great now hehe.


Ha ha, I did that... twice! Embarassed

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just found this:
http://www.touched-by-sound.com/de/TBS-33755-Tbs_Touched_By_Sound_Jennyphase_Compact_Clone_Krautrockphaser.html

So apparently, finally this is going somewhere!

I have not seen the final product myself, at least not yet, but as they are using my PCBs and also the LDRs I've specified (bought them directly from me), I expect this to be a success as much as it was as a DIY project!

The price seems very ok as well, given the amount of work that goes into that phaser, with Lamps and Vactrols and Power Supply and Adjustments and all!

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it is a very cool phaser jurgen
i swapped my first one for a refurbished reel to reel
and am about to build the replacement

well done!

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sonicwarrior



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm a bit late but I'm currently stuffing the Krautrock Phaser PCB I have left. I have a problem locating three capacitors from the BOM:

1 nF ceramic
22 uF electrolytic
100 uF electrolytic

Can somebody help me?

Edit: AFAIK a transformer with 2x15 V (secondary, AC) is sufficient to feed a 2x15 V DC supply.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Krautrock Phaser PCBs will be available again in the 2nd week of December 2010.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brilliant news JH! well done afro
_________________
ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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sonicwarrior



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sonicwarrior wrote:

1 nF ceramic
22 uF electrolytic
100 uF electrolytic


I guess they are simply not on the PCB. Hopefully the BOM gets updated
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JoeMorris



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quick question on my krautrock phaser while were on the topic. my one sounds amazing but seems to distort real easy (in a nice way as it happens) Are these designed for low signal levels?
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JoeMorris wrote:
Quick question on my krautrock phaser while were on the topic. my one sounds amazing but seems to distort real easy (in a nice way as it happens) Are these designed for low signal levels?


Low levels as in guitar or synthesizer outputs, yes. Or for Moog or EMS signal levels. For patching *inside* a modular system with +/-5V or even +/-10V levels, you should use an input attenuator potentiometer. Or attenuate the signal in some previous stage.

But that's a general thing: For "FX"-type signal processing devices, there isn't something such as a standard level in a modular system, because depending on the setting of resonance etc., you get vastly different gain for certain frequencies. To some degree this is also true for an ordinary VCF. You can see this in a synth like the Synton Syrinx: With it's 3 VCFs, you can do extremely complex things, but you can also run into extremely ugly distortion.

The best use for phasers, flangers etc. is normally *after* the last stage of a modular system. If you use it *inside* the system (for special applications), you have to set the levels carefully for that specific application. If you use it at the synthesizer's output, you just set the synth's output level pot such that there is no distortion in the FX, and rely on the headroom of your mixer / amplifier / speaker that it deals with the extreme dynamic changes that are produced by the phaser or flanger. Or, better, use a compressor / limiter. These demoes from "Dark November" where the OB-8 is processed by the Krautrock Phaser, with extreme resonance peaks in the bass range, were partly tamed with a FET-based compressor (stereo version of an Urei 1178 clone). Otherwise it would have been hard not to clip the Quantec, even when the Mixer and Recording system would have taken it.

JH.

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magman



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just spotted the review of the Mode Machines KRP1 Krautrock Phaser in this months Sound on Sound (December 2010, page 50).

Jurgen also gets a mention, on page 52.

If it wasn't on my wishlist already, this review would have prompted me to add it.

Congratulations

Regards

Magman
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

magman wrote:
I've just spotted the review of the Mode Machines KRP1 Krautrock Phaser in this months Sound on Sound (December 2010, page 50).

Jurgen also gets a mention, on page 52.

If it wasn't on my wishlist already, this review would have prompted me to add it.

Congratulations

Regards

Magman


I didn't know in was on SoS. Would you mind to mail me a scan of that article?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Krautrock Phaser PCBs are available again!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi jurgen

i am building another one of these amazing phasers. i actually bought this one semi-complete from someone on the forum. it seems functional except the osc period pot is having no effect. the lfo works but i can't get change from around 8sec cycle. do you have any idea what cold cause this?

i went around and cleaned up the flux and resoldered a few joints around the period pot and 741s in the lfo. no real effect as of yet but i think i might go a bit deeper.

everything else seems ok from what i can tell just this problem

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
hi jurgen

i am building another one of these amazing phasers. i actually bought this one semi-complete from someone on the forum. it seems functional except the osc period pot is having no effect. the lfo works but i can't get change from around 8sec cycle. do you have any idea what cold cause this?

i went around and cleaned up the flux and resoldered a few joints around the period pot and 741s in the lfo. no real effect as of yet but i think i might go a bit deeper.

everything else seems ok from what i can tell just this problem


Did you forget to solder in a jumper wire?

JH.

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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

there are 2 wire jumpers installed and i have a pin jumper on the amount connector. are there any others? i cannot see any on the reference description diagram.
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