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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
Hints on better mimic'ing Moogs
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Hints on better mimic'ing Moogs
Subject description: Please add your own
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If you've got a Little Phatty or other Moog... Post a soundclip. No, I'm just kidding.

One thing that makes the early Moogs sound a bit different seems to be that the waveforms exist more above the zero line than below. The Modular and Minimoog exhibit this. When you use an LFO in a Moog-style patch, offset it to about 65% or so positive, and see if that makes a difference. It's been a while since I've been in front of a Minimoog, but doesn't the vibrato (osc 3) cause the pitch to rise upward a bit as well?

Of course, long-mentioned in the excellent Tips and Tricks file, is to use an envelope to control Filter 2's Resonance, starting with a low overall setting and the envelope spikes it along with the Filter Fc.

Of course, using the LFOs and the TG to offset each oscillator helps as well. See the factory program Series 900.
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, people seem more interested in knocking Alesis and wondering about build quality, than talking about using the synth?
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Burbank, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Well, people seem more interested in knocking Alesis and wondering about build quality, than talking about using the synth?


Well I've only had mine for a few months and a combination of work, a wife and an endless stream of house guests this summer have kept me from spending any quality time with it. Once I actually get around to using it I'd love to talk about it. For now it's just sitting in the corner looking pretty. Sad
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edobedo



Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't you want some Phatty example!? Very Happy
I'm learning the Andy, I'm using existing patches for start new sounds because is very complex.
I compared the sound of Andy's OSC with the Phatty OSC.
Phatty is really soft near the Andy.

I made some lead sound very expressive (for me), I think if you want great results you have to shut down onboard effects.
With big pads Andy make me remember the Oberheim OBX/a I had many years ago.
Andy is a great machine, from Lead to soundscape, and great for live performance.


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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

edobedo wrote:
Don't you want some Phatty example!? Very Happy


No thanks, I've already got some! Very Happy

Glad you're enjoying the instrument. I like the personal style you express in your photos.
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Well, people seem more interested in knocking Alesis and wondering about build quality, than talking about using the synth?


OK...let's discuss.

Do you have any tips on how to get something beyond a buzzy mess out of this thing? Wink I finally got some time in front of my A6 last night (after months of staring at it) and at first glance it seems like it's going to be a PITA to program. I think I've been spoiled (or maybe made lazy) by the simplicity of my Moog. The A6 reminds me of my K2600 in a way. So many options it's hard to know where to start and requires work to get something useful out of it...but once you do it's worth the trouble.

Also I'm curious about the filter cutoff. The knob itself seems to have a very, very wide range yet only a tiny fraction of it seems to alter the sound in any way before it becomes completely wide open. Is there a reason for this?

While we're at it does anyone have a completely blank (no mod routings) default patch or empty bank they'd care to share in sysex format?
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The A6 obviously wasn't designed to prevent users from making mistakes. Some gear is limited to prevent such things, like the Minimoog, and it's dialed in to a specific range of beauty on purpose. There are sweet spots on the A6, well detailed in the online Tips and Tricks document. I've posted a couple of ideas recently, in this forum, regarding increasing the size of the overall sound. Try searching this particular page for my posts; it should show up sometime in the last few months. There is good information here, and on the other lists.

The filter range is to allow for very high frequency FM. Hit Filter 2 in self-oscillation with an audio oscillator and try the upper ranges, in various combinations.

You can also use an offset to lower the Filter Fc per patch. I put forth the concept of changing out the capacitors to do this in hardware.
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the response. I was pretty embarrassed with my lack of programming ability last night. I guess it's like getting used to a new car. You need to figure out where the blind spots are and get your seat and mirrors adjusted before you can get on the road.

I grabbed the Tips & Tricks off wohmart.com this morning. I'm going to print a copy and see if it gets me any further tonight. In the meantime I'll search out some of your posts and have a read.
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edobedo



Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 51
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also for me has been a nightmare the first hours of programming A6, but I think it's normal.

A real problem for me is the display, very little characters and too sensitive knobs...
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

edobedo wrote:
Also for me has been a nightmare the first hours of programming A6, but I think it's normal.

A real problem for me is the display, very little characters and too sensitive knobs...


Yeah...I'm sure there will be a decent (frustrating) breaking in period while I figure out the interface and all the tricks to make programming easier. This makes the learning process a bit more difficult but as I become more accustomed to the way it works I'll be glad it's as deep as it is.
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are single sentences in the Tips document that can make a huge difference in your experience of the A6, as well as setting you on paths of exploration that are rewarding (filter feedback, suboscillator mixing, etc.) Skimming this document might cause you to miss good things (but there are so many at once, it's understandable).

And there are many patches on wohmart to get you going. You can check out what sounds good from others and see what settings they've used, etc.

There are also some banks of patches on the Alesis site for free download.
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
There are single sentences in the Tips document that can make a huge difference in your experience of the A6, as well as setting you on paths of exploration that are rewarding (filter feedback, suboscillator mixing, etc.) Skimming this document might cause you to miss good things (but there are so many at once, it's understandable).

And there are many patches on wohmart to get you going. You can check out what sounds good from others and see what settings they've used, etc.

There are also some banks of patches on the Alesis site for free download.


I printed the Tips doc and put it in a binder. I'll probably read through the whole thing before I fire up the A6. It'll keep me occupied while I'm pretending to watch TV with my wife. Wink I've got all the patches from both sites. There's some great stuff in there. I'm mostly planning on using the A6 for pads and spacey ambient noises so those are the things I'm looking to figure out how to program.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jonkull wrote:
I'm mostly planning on using the A6 for pads and spacey ambient noises so those are the things I'm looking to figure out how to program.


This is likely the A6's best application, so have fun! Off the top of my head, there is a very simple factory patch called Zweeper, way at the end of one of the banks, which shows how to use oscillators to mod filter frequency, for spacey, weird sounds. There's a drum sound, a highat, that uses linear oscillator FM; few people have explored that aspect of the machine, so there's an interesting path to follow.
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mao



Joined: Oct 03, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting...

I think that all ppl using the A6 for the first time goes nuts because of the post-filter mix knobs. Before turning any VCF knob I think is mandatory to learn what the post-filter mix does and how. Noobie always turns cutoff and resonance knowing that that's the way to change the sound... but how and how much is all in the post-filter mix. It's THE weapon... not so secret but always skipped on learning.

I have done some decent moog alike lead... try downloading my soundbank from the A6 user community.... here: http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-152.html
there are some korg MS alike sounds too.

inside the .rar you'll find a txt with "sound name: what sound is" explanation.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.... and A6 ppl ... wake up... tons of pages about the P08... we have a far more wide range synth in our hands... let's keep it "alive"...
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edobedo



Joined: Sep 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I downloaded all the patches and the tips document before buy A6, but I never read it because I never used a manual.
Yesterday I printed it, I think it will be a real help for all.

Prophet 08 is the synth of the moment, and mp3s online make me think it will sound very well.

I'll never sell my A6 to buy a P08, but P08 I'm sure do not have some strange behaviors.

Exemple: yesterday I was playing with ribbon on a preset, Zen Master 2, and I'm sure it had a long sustain, so when you touch ribbon control you have changes, also if you press sustain pedal.
Yesterday this patch had no sustain.
Can you tell me if is really as I describe or if I'm totally mad? Embarassed
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mao



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All the fault I had with the A6... well... where mine... due to my lazyness on studing the manual (reading it it's not enough) and the great tips&tricks document.

I think it's somekind exciting using such a "mysterius synth" because you'll never end to learn something new.

This evening if I find the preset "zen master 2"... I'll tell you.

oh take a look at this: http://www.backintimerecords.de/bitr003.htm

Alesis Andromeda A6: FilmScore by kpr ... seems good enough...
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edobedo



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not sure, it is Zen Master or Zen Master 2...
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mao wrote:
Noobie always turns cutoff and resonance knowing that that's the way to change the sound... but how and how much is all in the post-filter mix. It's THE weapon... not so secret but always skipped on learning.


And that's exactly what I was doing when I first turned it on. I can see how the post filter mix is important. I discovered it 'by accident' and finally made something that doesn't sound like buzzy crap. I also figured out that getting a clean sound depends on keeping the pre/post mix levels low. I need to get reading on the Tips doc I printed out...

mao wrote:
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.... and A6 ppl ... wake up... tons of pages about the P08... we have a far more wide range synth in our hands... let's keep it "alive"...


Yeah...there's one thread with over 700 posts about the P08 on vintagesynth. A6 people seem to be few and far between. I think that the P08 is more accessible to people...I had an evolver and it was much easier to get up and running with than the A6 has been...but wasn't very satisfying. I'm curious to know how many Andromedas have been sold and where those users are.

Last edited by jonkull on Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

edobedo wrote:
I downloaded all the patches and the tips document before buy A6, but I never read it because I never used a manual.
Yesterday I printed it, I think it will be a real help for all.


I've never been much of a manual reader. I find it a lot easier to figure things out by fooling around with them or by watching someone else do it once. That said I downloaded the tips doc and the manual and read through them both before I got my A6. Of course I didn't retain any of the information. Wink I need to force myself to reread them and to pay attention this time because I think the A6 is going to be too complicated to figure out by playing around.
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soundwave106



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jonkull wrote:
Yeah...there's one thread with over 700 posts about the P08 on vintagesynth. A6 people seem to be few and far between.


P08 is the new kid in town. Back in the old days, there was a *lot* of activity on the A6 -- on the mailing list and elsewhere. This is pretty much is how that tips and tricks document was compiled.

Things have settled down for the ol' A6, kind of like with the P08 in town no one is caring about the Polyevolver. I'll be honest, personal opinion, I'd rather have either of these than the P'08. The Polyevolver and A6 have a certain uniqueness to them; they both seem to have sounds that are impossible to make, at least with the same fidelity, on other gear. Obviously others would prefer the more immediate aspect that a streamlined design like the P'08 offers.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Most people don't want build a piano, they want to play one. There is definitely a level of craft involved in the A6, but a collection of great patches by those who have figured it out would make the difference for those who want to play and not dig.

For me, the process is as important as the result, especially if I learn something new (even investigating other people's sounds, like Zon's "Wheeldown=Yeah" factory patch, and the interesting overall vibe that Marc, Jurg, and the Euro programmers created).
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
For me, the process is as important as the result, especially if I learn something new


Yeah, that's true. I've had fun trying to figure out the A6 over the last few nights.

When I first got into synths in the late 80s I'd learn them inside out before I started playing music but somewhere along the way I got lazy and started simply riding the presets. Playing other people's patches just isn't satisfying anymore.
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edobedo



Joined: Sep 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tonight I started with yhe A6 Tips, I tested the OSC section and now I'm starting understand the sound of this keyboard.
Thanks God it is not a "tangible product"
It is a monster.
I modified some lead sound using tips and now I have the more expressive leads I ever had.
This is what I was looking for, a flexible instruments with real sound.
Ok, there is great complexity (other synths have waveforms, with A6 what you want from a saw? You have to choice), but the results are udible.
A lead started from a bass sound using negative saws now break out in the mix more than with positive.

Thanks for tips, I'll continue.
My problem is that I try to study half an hour, and then I start to playng for two or three hours because it's really fun!

Happy with my Andy! thanks
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm happy that people are getting some fun from their instruments.

I don't know how many A6s there are in existence, but several hundred at minimum.

Jonkull, if you want more info on spacey pads, check out the factory program "Nyquist Pad". (I mention my own because they're the ones whose names I remember the most, not having an A6 around at the moment).

There are several audio routes going on. Hold a chord and the ring modulator, filters, etc. all come in at different times, unfolding. All of these routes may be used simultaneously, of course, for more complex sounds.

Pim did a pad that's in the arpeggiation/sequencer bank; I don't remember it's name, but it's a pad where the sequencer is doing a MIDI-synch'd modulation of the filters. Great stuff, easy to pass by but rewarding to use and analyze.
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jonkull



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Jonkull, if you want more info on spacey pads, check out the factory program "Nyquist Pad". (I mention my own because they're the ones whose names I remember the most, not having an A6 around at the moment).


Yeah, that's a nice one. I'll have to take a look at how you programmed it.

Peake wrote:
Pim did a pad that's in the arpeggiation/sequencer bank; I don't remember it's name, but it's a pad where the sequencer is doing a MIDI-synch'd modulation of the filters. Great stuff, easy to pass by but rewarding to use and analyze.


I've avoided the sequencer/arpeggiation bank but I'll have to load it and look for that. One of the things I'm interested in doing is using the seq/arp for evolving textures. Once I get the hang of basic programmingon the A6 I'll dive into that.
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