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CV Quantizer PCB Layouts
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 583
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
i implemented the d-flipflop today, as once mentioned to me by harry bissell:
the comparators output is fed into the d-flipflop. the flipflop is clocked by the origin clock.
it improved the performance a lot.


Amazing !!
Far beyond my skills Smile

But something hurt my ears within the first sample.

sequencer as source, MFOS 12db filter comes in later:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/quant_01.mp3
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
But something hurt my ears within the first sample.

i think i know what you mean. i think you can hear it at the start of the other samples, too. i don't know what it is, however it is not the quantizer. i even didn't recognize it when recording the samples. strange kind of artefact!?

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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

congrats matthias.

one question, is this normal that some notes don't have the same duration as others? It's really obvious in the lfo samples as it sounds like it skips some notes.

if this gets to a pcb sometime i'll take two of these Smile

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xpmtl wrote:
one question, is this normal that some notes don't have the same duration as others? It's really obvious in the lfo samples as it sounds like it skips some notes.

it is not only obvious in the LFO sample, actually it is significant for the LFO sample only. the input CV is continiously changing, not so in the sequencer samples. there are no notes skipped, but the comparison of especially the falling CV input to the staircase seems to cause these artefacts. i will try to increase the clock frequency. hopefully the behaviour will change then...

these days i have aweful lot to do. i still have to work on PS3100 orders and the vocal filter shall be finished before the german modular meeting in may.
however, the quantizer is still on breadboard...

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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep skipped wasn't the right term, shorten is more appropriate.

anyway, take ur time, i got such a backlog in front of me that i can wait Cool

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fonik



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so i did some short and crappy samples of the quantizer.

i quantized a LFO and a S&H using both setups, the 4516s and a 4024 and the latch (D-flipflop). don't care about the metallic sound of the VCO, i did not take care of it when doing the recording using the 4516s back then, so i had to do it with just the same bad sound today using the 4024 to have some comparability.

IMHO the performance of the 4516s is slightly better.
oppinions? comments?

and then: i am used to the doepfer quantizer. a PIC based module providing scales and chords. to be honest, a simple semitone quantizer seems not half that interesting to me. what would you use it for? as supplement for your sequencer?
oppinions? comments?

http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4516_lfo.mp3
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4024_lfo.mp3
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4516_sh.mp3
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4024_sh.mp3

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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A quad version is something awsome, bipolar is a must.

For your klee, M-185, baby sequences. (I guess it is a real good reason)
For transposing some patch (offset into vca...)
For using divider/gate/adsr as transposing signal (via attenuator)
For random and semi-random outputs to 1V/OCT VCO : S&H, 266 SRV, 266 QRV and wogglebug cv and all
For the shitty ASR around here...

and for...huh...who helps me ? Wink
Scott, how did you use your design ?

Scales I have that I prefer is what I call "1-3" (generating only tonic and third over 5 octaves), 1-5, octaves, fifths...I dream about a small module (no pot) with outputs that would generate only thirds, or fifths or octaves from a same signal.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

did anyone listen to the samples above?

i am still not sure if i want to build me a prototype... by using switches for some of the bits one could achieve 2, 3, 4 or 5 semi steps. this would be no scale of course! scales consist of different steps.

however, the whole thing is still on my breadboard.

opinions about the performance? while typing this i think of trying to clock it faster, maybe this would help too.

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ach_gott



Joined: Sep 09, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I did listen and I'm finding the idea intriguing, especially with the switches as you mention.
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 4516 definitely sound alot better!
I'm not sure what to expect - but for being a "analog" (i.e. no microcontroller) module I think it sounds good!

Honestly I'd love to see this project go to a PCB stage!

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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay Very Happy

the questions are:

1) 2x 4516 or 1x 4024?

2) would the quality/performance be sufficient and justifying manufacturing a handful of PCBs? (a single sided layout would be a mess, i believe).

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zthee



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

1) 2 x 4516

2) Yes! Very Happy

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ach_gott



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ditto:

1) 2 x 4516

2) Yes, please. Cool
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Dego



Joined: Apr 22, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

1) 2 x 4516

2) Yes Very Happy
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wetterberg



Joined: Jun 27, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I gave it my best listen (eh?) and I too found the 4516 samples to be the most "spot-on". I'd love a couple of pcbs with this on it!

- and yes, add some switches to do whole-tones etc. Love it!
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loss1234



Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I REALLY think you should do a pcb of this. did you say its 4 channel? there is a real need for something like this.

i like my MFOS quantizer but at only 1 channel it take up a lot of real estate

thanks

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you for your kind replies. i would have thought of two channels, one could be used to set the base of the 2nd.
i fear that i will have to buy the standard version of the CAD i use to have enough boards space - then i could do at least some proto PCBs for us four interested people (even a 4-channel version) Wink

the quantizer is still on breadboard. i will redraw the schematic according to our last changes: D-flipflop and 2x4516

does anybody know a single or dual d-flipflop IC and where to source?

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zthee



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would a 4013 do the trick? http://www.doctronics.co.uk/4013.htm

I'm surprised there is no interest in this project?!
Perhaps you should start a new thread when you get the prototyping running? As people might just miss this since it doesn't say "PCB ON THE WAY! TAKING ORDERS NOW!!" Rolling Eyes Very Happy

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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I could definitely be interested. I have a MFOS quantizer which is why I haven't said anything yet but have been watching the thread.

If a post could be made detailing exactly what features this board will have so I could easily compare it to the MFOS it could help me decide if I'd like a board.

Thanks.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
Would a 4013 do the trick?

thank you for the suggestion. however, the 4013 is designed for medium speed (16MHz) and we are looking for high speed (30-60MHz).

the IC would not get smaller anyways. i wished there was a 8pin d-flipflop.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
I could definitely be interested. I have a MFOS quantizer which is why I haven't said anything yet but have been watching the thread.

If a post could be made detailing exactly what features this board will have so I could easily compare it to the MFOS it could help me decide if I'd like a board.

Thanks.


i am far from a PCB, but i envision to implement following features (this year at least Very Happy ):

- 10 octaves
- selectable bi-polar -5V to +5V OR unipolar 0V to 10V
- selectable step width (semi, 2x/3x/4x semi?)
- at least two channels
- one channel could work as a "overall" quantizer to shift the output of the 2nd channel

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well i would LOVE to see a theory of operation for this FONIK!! can you write one up or does anyone else know how this works????

i got a bunch of ADC0808's and DAC0808's and would like to try my hand at bread boarding a simple quantizer but have NO IDEA how it works or how to implement it

since yours is all parts i have, i would like to build it and learn from it, but that is going to be hard without an explanation of what each chip is doing and also how scales are created. right now it just looks like a bunch of chips.

i see a divider and a sample and hold but beyond that, i think for many of us, our knowledge of how these things work is sadly lacking

i think the SYNTH DIY community will buy a bunch of your pcbs for this when its done...there is a real need for these and if you start a separate thread, well you will get lots of orders

you know i would love to see more people trying projects like these, including myself. and that is why i bought some ad/da chips. but man, they sure dont seem too simple at first

thanks

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi dan,

i know it is sometimes painful., but you might want to skip thru the previous pages. it is just the ARP style quantizer idea, once picked up by chris list and improved by scott stites (check out chris and scotts docs about how it works).
then we found the AD part used in these circuits to be very expensive and hard to get, so i just utilized a common cheap DAC0800 (that was my contribution).

this is how i would decribe the operation: a clock drives a counter, the counter drives the DAC, the DAC creates a staircase: 128 steps over the range of 10V, trimmed to semitones.
this staircase gets constantly compared to the incoming CV. as soon as the staircase goes higher than the incoming CV signal the comparator goes high and a pulse is derived to trigger the sample and hold. the sample and hold does what? yes, it samples and holds the incoming CV.
that's the basics.

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

actually i printed out this whole thread!!

(last night)

thanks a lot for your quick explanation!

so is this how MOST quantizers work? for example the MFOS one doesnt use any DAC chip but it does use counters

i just realized you use a different DAC than me

i wonder if my DAC0808 would work with some mods to the circuit?

thanks as usual

btw...your schematic is viewing and printing very fuzzy...cant zoom in too far

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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the info Matthias. Sounds interesting. Will definitely follow your progress.

Paul

fonik wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
I could definitely be interested. I have a MFOS quantizer which is why I haven't said anything yet but have been watching the thread.

If a post could be made detailing exactly what features this board will have so I could easily compare it to the MFOS it could help me decide if I'd like a board.

Thanks.


i am far from a PCB, but i envision to implement following features (this year at least Very Happy ):

- 10 octaves
- selectable bi-polar -5V to +5V OR unipolar 0V to 10V
- selectable step width (semi, 2x/3x/4x semi?)
- at least two channels
- one channel could work as a "overall" quantizer to shift the output of the 2nd channel
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