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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Famous Fixed Filters - FFF PCB ?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dave Kendall wrote:
Maybe this one?


Think so, thanks Exclamation

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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beat me to it! ;-P

I'm already working on some other MB projects.... Seems like an excellent bridge for control over analog circuits - switching, mixers, control surfaces....

The "FFF", a good VCO poly (OB-8 in my case), and a switcher like this, you can have something better than a Polymoog, VP-330, Lambda etc. all combined and switchable by midi! Wink

Gav.
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As my parts stock is low at the moment so I can't really build my Triple Chorus or my other projects, and as I'm trying NOT to think of work over my holidays.... ;-P

I've been turning my mind to the planning stages on some things, and this idea keeps coming up.... Overall, it would be nice to have a few solid string and vocal filters, that way you could feed them with a good poly and mix and match them.

Depending on how "doable" it would be, these would be my faves....

Strings:
Polymoog Vox Humana / Strings 1 / Strings 2
Roland VP-330 Strings (Upper/Lower)
Korg Lambda Strings 1 / Strings 2

Vocal/Choir:
Roland VP-330 (4 settings)
Polychrome Vocal Chorus (1/2/3 - not sure if these are separate filters?)
Korg Lambda Chorus

From the schems that I've seen (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.... I've only eyed the VP-330 and Lambda) most of the filters that have variable attack/release controls simply use them for a volume VCA before the fixed filter? If so, the poly can do all of that work....

Coupled with JH's Triple Chorus, Schulte, and a stereo chorus, any decent analog poly could be a pad monster with these filters!

Just for interest, does anyone have the Polymoog Keyboard preset/filter schems and/or the Polychrome filter schems? Would be interesting to have a gander at them.... Wink

Gav.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A module with some simple anti aliasing filters like in the linndrum em sp1200 would be cool to.
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Undergrind



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

maybe a more modular one like a selection of eight small filters out of 4 different types. All with small pcbs and front. These are internally connected to a

FF <-- Filter Fixer Smile

having an audioinput that will be sent internally to all "slave" filters. And a audiooutput which sums all the signals of the slavefilters with a poti recieven internally. This module locks (fixes) the initial frequencies of the slaved filters by sending a set of fixed (programmable?) cvs to the slavefilters. Or with a cv-controlable interval between the 8 bands.

the seperate audioinputs of the slavefilters disconnect the internal wiring. the cv freq input summs the incoming cv with the cv provided by "FilterFixer"

what do you think? or did I absolutely miss the point? Razz

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Electronicant



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Vocal Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Rhodes Chroma, has really great vocal sounds.
Last edited by Electronicant on Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ENDIF



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh yeah. Love my Chroma Polaris.
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Ricko



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:34 am    Post subject: Some filter values Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe someone will find this useful.

Last year I went through the various Moog present synths to work out the frequencies of their fixed filter banks or BP filters. This was working up to making a little module (and also to do one for Arp Explorer), which I suppose I'll get around to sooner or later.

The filter specs are the ones in bold in the table.

Rick Jelliffe


Design specs for Fixed Filter Bank from Moog Preset Synths.pdf
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Design notes for Polymoog etc FFB

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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a couple quick Q's for anyone who may have sifted through this before.... Wink

I have been reviewing the notes from the Polymoog Keyboard, and the Vox Humana filter is a bit confusing (to my puny brain anyway! ;-P) It appears that there is a separate board altogether for the Vox Humana filters (at least for the lowpass portions), but there is reference to still another set of highpass filters associated with the Vox Humana preset on Board #1?

Is the Vox Humana "Board" the whole fixed bank, or not?

As another aside, has anyone gone any further in analyzing the Polychrome Vocal Chorus circuit? I've never encountered a Polychrome in person, and as all I have to go on is the PDF'd "spec sheet", I can't figure out if it is really a "fixed" filter, or whether there is something far more complex at work....

Cheers,

Gav.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a short demo of the section that emulates the VP330 Vocoder Plus "male 8" voice.

Input signal is a single-oscillator sound with slight PWM be envelope and triangle wave vibrato from the PolyKorg Clone.
TC D-Two echo added, as well as a little bit of Quantec.

Starts with dry sound, switches to Male 8 Voice filter and back.

JH.


jh_fff_vp330male8voice.mp3
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Electronicant



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Is it decided which filter it´s going to be in this module?

The Yamaha GX1/MOTM-485 VCF is nice too ofcourse. Adds a bit of distorsion.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the gx1 vcf is voltage controled so not fixed.

JH did you try that polychrome choir filter yet?
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jurgen honestly something like the buchla 194,195 would be cool.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
Jurgen honestly something like the buchla 194,195 would be cool.


I'll have to look at these ... remind me should I forget.

JH.

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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing demo on the Male 8' Filter, JH!

Is the plan to include all 4 settings of the VP-330 filter on board? If so, is there any benefit to having separate 4' and 8' inputs to the filters?

As well, I have to echo mono-poly.... although I know we're not looking for a "vocal" filter module here, the vocal filter from the Polychrome would be a spectacular addition! Wink

Gav.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gavgomad wrote:

Is the plan to include all 4 settings of the VP-330 filter on board? If so, is there any benefit to having separate 4' and 8' inputs to the filters?


The 3 male settings are all slightly different, the female setting obviously a lot different, but IMO it's that Male 8 I've demo'ed that stands out. I'm not overly fond of the female setting.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Norman Phay



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That little demo clip sounds like the business, Jurgen. Looking forward to this one, for sure. The Novachord filters could be a good addition to this, if you're still looking for suggestions. This is the piece you suggest combining with the string filter at some point, I believe?

On the off-chance that Rick Jellife from upthread is still looking at this, can I just say that I really dig that "ricko-juicer" VST plug that you wrote, and that I also like the CS80r and the SH3-a-like VST instruments as well? Thanks for writing them and seeing fit to share your work with people. I did create a few presets for the CS80r, not a full bank of them to send to you yet though.
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Electronicant



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don´t forget the Logan Vocalist and it´s larger brother Vocal Synth. An eerie choir sound.

The human voice presets on Teisco EX-300 and SX-400 is said to be very nice too.

Yamaha SS-30 is another suggestion for strings.
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Ricko



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject:
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Oh, thanks for that: people say I got the CS-60 ring modulator better than the commercial emulator. SynthEdit and simple DSP is so easy compared to hardware! In hardwara, the construction details are so much of the job. I really admire JH, Ian Fritz and so on, the ones who absolutely are masters of the analog game and then creative.

Cheers
Rick Jelliffe
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julianw



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
A module with some simple anti aliasing filters like in the linndrum em sp1200 would be cool to.


+1

A vintage 'gritty' A/D>D/A Module ala SP1200/MPC60 (12bit) could be really useful (esp for drums), maybe there is some way of integrating into the Deltalab VC Delay project...

BTW Love the VP330 demo.
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phdinfunk



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Another important fixed filter.
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I would TOTALLY be in for the module you're describing. I've developed more and more of a taste for fixed filters.

One request: The Moog String Filter... God I forget what it's called, maybe someone knows. It was designed as a standalone box to pass sounds through and apply the formants of a violin to it.

My other request, definately the manual set and forget filter from Roland's SH-7 (or was it the SH-9?)

Moog's Vox Humana filter is a classic.... I like vocal filters, if you put more than one in there it would not go to waste.

Man oh man, I can't wait to build this. I think it will rock a lot.
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/mr



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I found this interesting thread today. I'm not sure if the project has been put on ice or if it's still alive, but... although I don't have any better fixed filter suggestions than the above mentioned, I would be very interested in buying an FFF PCB or two if it becomes reality!

The project is a good idea, since fixed filters can give an "acoustic" or "physical" quality to the often "too clinical" electronic sounds. Fixed filters are underrated devices, too rarely seen/heard. I have a equalizer-like Doepfer FFB that is remarkably useful, and I've always wanted more fixed filter units of different kinds.

Go for it! Smile

A side note:
A couple of you have suggested mixing different filter outputs in the postings above. Since phase differences will cause frequencies to interfere both constructively and destructively, the resulting spectrums will be somewhat unexpected. I think the different internal filters should be seen as separate effect boxes instead. Perhaps with separate outputs, and the user can mix & treat these at will.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

/mr wrote:
I found this interesting thread today. I'm not sure if the project has been put on ice or if it's still alive, but... although I don't have any better fixed filter suggestions than the above mentioned, I would be very interested in buying an FFF PCB or two if it becomes reality!

The project is a good idea, since fixed filters can give an "acoustic" or "physical" quality to the often "too clinical" electronic sounds. Fixed filters are underrated devices, too rarely seen/heard. I have a equalizer-like Doepfer FFB that is remarkably useful, and I've always wanted more fixed filter units of different kinds.

Go for it! Smile

A side note:
A couple of you have suggested mixing different filter outputs in the postings above. Since phase differences will cause frequencies to interfere both constructively and destructively, the resulting spectrums will be somewhat unexpected. I think the different internal filters should be seen as separate effect boxes instead. Perhaps with separate outputs, and the user can mix & treat these at will.


FFF project will certainly happen.
I have an idea how to make it more universally usable than intended - maybe.

Phase cancellation from mixing:
Unexpected: Yes.
Interesting: Just because of being unexpected, IMO.
Creating a deep notch somewhere near a resonance peak may look stupid in a filter plot, but may just be what gives an interesting, organic sound quality!

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Another important fixed filter.
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phdinfunk wrote:

One request: The Moog String Filter... God I forget what it's called, maybe someone knows. It was designed as a standalone box to pass sounds through and apply the formants of a violin to it.


Something like this ?
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter.html
Laughing

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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/mr



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Phase cancellation from mixing:
Unexpected: Yes.
Interesting: Just because of being unexpected, IMO.
Creating a deep notch somewhere near a resonance peak may look stupid in a filter plot, but may just be what gives an interesting, organic sound quality!

Definitely!
But important to know that MALE CHOIR + FEMALE CHOIR not necessarily results in MIXED CHOIR. For example. Smile
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