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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Ian!,

Nope, No googling. Credit goes to the fact that I've been working on speech synthesis circuits recently, reading a lot of research where vowels are represented as you've done. So it was either A-I-N or A-E-N or I-A-N. The last seemed most reasonable, so I went with it.

I've also always enjoyed phonetics. Had pets named Diogee, and Ciate! Try phonetic scrabble sometime; it's hilarious.

Kind regards, Randal
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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's very cool to see this entire discussion. Smile My very first (cough cough) 'synthesizer' that I designed and built was the "Miller WD12" in 1986:

W = Without
D = Drill
1 = 1st attempt
2 = 2 oscillators

Each of the 2 oscillators could either:
- operate independently or
- modulate the other oscillator, ON / OFF

(Come to think of it - the unit were actually 4 oscillators operating either as:
- 4 discrete oscillators
- 2 discrete, with a 3rd modulating the 4th
- 2 modulated oscillators)

The controls for the device were:
- Speed 1, 2, 3 and 4
- Switches for 1 modulating 2 or not and 3 modulating 4 or not

In those days, I had no CLUE as to buffering the power of the 9V battery. Therefore, no buffering capacitors had been used at all.

With the success of the simple unit, that I later renamed The Deathlehem Machine #1, I built 6 more of them over the following years in various ways. 1 of them used Barry Klein LFOs cross-modulating each other; 2 of them had a bunch of extra logic for further manipulations and final one, was completely modular with even the speed pots being patchable, as well as 100% transistor based. (A photo of it, is my avatar. Wink )

On my tunes web page, I still have the recording of a 30 minute 'live to tape' piece I'd done through a rack full of effects gear, in 1989. To this day - it's still one of my most fave noise pieces. Smile

http://deathlehem.com/wsb4569662401/Samples/mp3/WanderingDepthsWonderingMinds1990.mp3

Once I find the schematic for it, I'll post it in the schematics section of my modular synth's web page for anyone that's curious. Smile
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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ayeyen wrote:
Rykhaard wrote:
Once I find the schematic for it, I'll post it in the schematics section of my modular synth's web page for anyone that's curious. Smile


I most definitely am. And that schematic is coming, in a sec.


It's now up with a brief description. Smile I'm just working on a fuller description for it, now. Smile
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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24079
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
On my tunes web page, I still have the recording of a 30 minute 'live to tape' piece I'd done through a rack full of effects gear, in 1989. To this day - it's still one of my most fave noise pieces. Smile


Listening now, this sounds very good to me !

Edit : finished listening, liked it !

well done well done well done well done

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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blue hell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ayeyen wrote:
There was a power outage so I hand-drew the schematic... sideways :P
http://xvi.com/pictures/view.php?p=136958&s=l


I tried to make the image visible in your post (by applying a little edit to it), but there seems something wrong with the URL - when I open it in the browser it just echoes the URL and I get no image.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Danno Gee Ray



Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Telford, PA USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is what I get when I click on the link:

Warning: readfile(/www/xvi/htdocs.img//members_only.jpg): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /www/xvi/htdocs/pictures/view.php on line 142
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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could simply attach it Very Happy
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24079
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ayeyen wrote:
How do I attatch?


When you post a message you'll see an attach button below the field where you type your message. Click on that one and the screen will reload and a browse button will show somewhere below the message box, use that one to search for the file on your local hard disk, click OK and then just send the message as usual.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It would be best to attach a jpg file, not a bmp.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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blue hell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

See, easy Very Happy

were you just lazy in he drawing or are there really 12 unconnected port inputs?

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ayeyen wrote:
Randaleem wrote:
Hi ayeyen (Ian?)


Yup, that's my nanme. You're the first to figure it out, I think.
Unless you cheated and googled me. Very Happy


With a "long I", like me??
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 4127
Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Finally, you may not realise that a solderless breadboard and CMOS chips are not always a reliable combination when prototyping. (Notice that the link I provided is using a stripboard prototyping board, rather than the common "whiteboard" solderless type. The problem is that the solderless whiteboards have a LOT of stray capacitiance, and with CMOS being as sensitive as it is, you will need even more bypass caps and perhaps "extra" measures to test CMOS circuits this way. Such extra measures may include more caps, multiple chips (when the final design will use only one) added r/c filters on I/O, slower clocking, etc.


I don't know where this comes from, but it's sure not been my experience at all. I've been using solderless breadboards for CMOS design for years. I've still got the entire Klee sequencer on breadboard, it's been on breadboard since August 2006, and it still works. That's around 25 ICs, I believe, most of them CMOS. I rarely, if ever, have to take any special precautions with decoupling, etc. I certainly didn't with the Klee. I clocked it up to 40 kHz when it was on the BB.

I only use protoboard when I'm ready to build the module itself.


Klee_bb2.JPG
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Early Klee Breadboard
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Klee_bb2.JPG



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deleted_account-2192



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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deleted_account-2192



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Quote:
Finally, you may not realise that a solderless breadboard and CMOS chips are not always a reliable combination when prototyping.

I don't know where this comes from,

Hi Scott,

Well, I won't waste a lot of space in reply. Thomas H mentions it (parasitic capacitance on a breadboard, and the need for circuit changes due to it; tho' not necessarily due to CMOS) a few times in his VCO chip cookbook. And I'm sure you know it's fairly common knowledge that breadboards can make for some strange results AT TIMES. (This IS a thread about strange results.) Here's one link that came up near the top of a search of "parasitic capacitance in Breadboards": http://www.electronics-lab.com/forum/forums.html?topic=10445.0 Sure seems like a few of the guys there are familiar with it?

Quote:
but it's sure not been my experience at all. I've been using solderless breadboards for CMOS design for years.

And IMO that's at least part of the answer for your success. You do things "naturally" that minimise any bad results. Even amid the tangle of of your photo, one can easily see that you've been breadboarding a Long time. (Nice pic BTW!)

A person new to breadboarding may not have any idea there even "could" be a problem due to things you take for granted and know how to avoid. This thread stands as proof of that. Seems worthwhle to mention that the breadboard itself has some component properties?

Kind regards, Randal
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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Ummm, Pots are variable resistors measured in ohms. Laughing Capacitors are measured in Farads, and uF... Wink

Put the 100uF capacitor back across the power supply and leave it there. (If cap is what you meant in the 2nd sentence.) Now what happens when you turn the pot? Have you any .1uf or .01uf Capacitors across the power supply pins of the CMOS chip (And near it)? If not, add one. Now what happens?


ayeyen wrote:
Okay, weirdness. I removed the 100uF pot from the power source because it wasn't doing much of anything. I also added a 10uF pot from ground to pin 10 (the beginnings of a second oscillator). Now, when i turn it on (with the pot all the way round) I get a staticy almost-am-radio sound, then when i turn the pot down and back up I get the usual square wave. If I start with the pot low, nothing happens.
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deleted_account-2192



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Northern CA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

While cruising the resulting links of the search on "Parasitic capacitance in breadboards" I came across this interesting and useful PDF of about 90+ pages: http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Associated_Docs/322486563Section9.pdf

While much of it is devoted to analog circuits of much higher frequencies than we usually have to deal with, it still contains a number of useful ideas and practical information pertinent to this thread, and indeed useful to anyone involved with Analog circuitry. Many of the references and authors are well-known for their expertise, (Pease, Jung, Ott Wink et al) and the paper itself originates from some people who "should" know at least a bit about Analog design practices and pitfalls. Wink Laughing

Perhaps worthy of another thread? is this next part. Beginning on page 19 is a discussion about using switching supplies with analog circuits. IMO this has some useful ideas and information on this oft-discussed and debated subject.

IMO it's a download-and-keeper. Hope you find it useful!

Kind regards, Randal
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