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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:03 am Post subject:
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Hi Ian!,
Nope, No googling. Credit goes to the fact that I've been working on speech synthesis circuits recently, reading a lot of research where vowels are represented as you've done. So it was either A-I-N or A-E-N or I-A-N. The last seemed most reasonable, so I went with it.
I've also always enjoyed phonetics. Had pets named Diogee, and Ciate! Try phonetic scrabble sometime; it's hilarious.
Kind regards, Randal |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:39 am Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:29 am Post subject:
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It's very cool to see this entire discussion. My very first (cough cough) 'synthesizer' that I designed and built was the "Miller WD12" in 1986:
W = Without
D = Drill
1 = 1st attempt
2 = 2 oscillators
Each of the 2 oscillators could either:
- operate independently or
- modulate the other oscillator, ON / OFF
(Come to think of it - the unit were actually 4 oscillators operating either as:
- 4 discrete oscillators
- 2 discrete, with a 3rd modulating the 4th
- 2 modulated oscillators)
The controls for the device were:
- Speed 1, 2, 3 and 4
- Switches for 1 modulating 2 or not and 3 modulating 4 or not
In those days, I had no CLUE as to buffering the power of the 9V battery. Therefore, no buffering capacitors had been used at all.
With the success of the simple unit, that I later renamed The Deathlehem Machine #1, I built 6 more of them over the following years in various ways. 1 of them used Barry Klein LFOs cross-modulating each other; 2 of them had a bunch of extra logic for further manipulations and final one, was completely modular with even the speed pots being patchable, as well as 100% transistor based. (A photo of it, is my avatar. )
On my tunes web page, I still have the recording of a 30 minute 'live to tape' piece I'd done through a rack full of effects gear, in 1989. To this day - it's still one of my most fave noise pieces.
http://deathlehem.com/wsb4569662401/Samples/mp3/WanderingDepthsWonderingMinds1990.mp3
Once I find the schematic for it, I'll post it in the schematics section of my modular synth's web page for anyone that's curious. |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:45 am Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:23 am Post subject:
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ayeyen wrote: | Rykhaard wrote: | Once I find the schematic for it, I'll post it in the schematics section of my modular synth's web page for anyone that's curious. |
I most definitely am. And that schematic is coming, in a sec. |
It's now up with a brief description. I'm just working on a fuller description for it, now. |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:28 am Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject:
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Rykhaard wrote: | On my tunes web page, I still have the recording of a 30 minute 'live to tape' piece I'd done through a rack full of effects gear, in 1989. To this day - it's still one of my most fave noise pieces. |
Listening now, this sounds very good to me !
Edit : finished listening, liked it !
_________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Last edited by blue hell on Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject:
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I tried to make the image visible in your post (by applying a little edit to it), but there seems something wrong with the URL - when I open it in the browser it just echoes the URL and I get no image. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject:
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This is what I get when I click on the link:
Warning: readfile(/www/xvi/htdocs.img//members_only.jpg): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /www/xvi/htdocs/pictures/view.php on line 142 |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject:
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You could simply attach it _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject:
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ayeyen wrote: | How do I attatch? |
When you post a message you'll see an attach button below the field where you type your message. Click on that one and the screen will reload and a browse button will show somewhere below the message box, use that one to search for the file on your local hard disk, click OK and then just send the message as usual. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject:
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It would be best to attach a jpg file, not a bmp. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject:
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See, easy
were you just lazy in he drawing or are there really 12 unconnected port inputs? _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject:
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ayeyen wrote: | Randaleem wrote: | Hi ayeyen (Ian?) |
Yup, that's my nanme. You're the first to figure it out, I think.
Unless you cheated and googled me. |
With a "long I", like me?? |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | Finally, you may not realise that a solderless breadboard and CMOS chips are not always a reliable combination when prototyping. (Notice that the link I provided is using a stripboard prototyping board, rather than the common "whiteboard" solderless type. The problem is that the solderless whiteboards have a LOT of stray capacitiance, and with CMOS being as sensitive as it is, you will need even more bypass caps and perhaps "extra" measures to test CMOS circuits this way. Such extra measures may include more caps, multiple chips (when the final design will use only one) added r/c filters on I/O, slower clocking, etc. |
I don't know where this comes from, but it's sure not been my experience at all. I've been using solderless breadboards for CMOS design for years. I've still got the entire Klee sequencer on breadboard, it's been on breadboard since August 2006, and it still works. That's around 25 ICs, I believe, most of them CMOS. I rarely, if ever, have to take any special precautions with decoupling, etc. I certainly didn't with the Klee. I clocked it up to 40 kHz when it was on the BB.
I only use protoboard when I'm ready to build the module itself.
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This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge. |
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_________________ My Site |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject:
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Scott Stites wrote: | Quote: | Finally, you may not realise that a solderless breadboard and CMOS chips are not always a reliable combination when prototyping. |
I don't know where this comes from, |
Hi Scott,
Well, I won't waste a lot of space in reply. Thomas H mentions it (parasitic capacitance on a breadboard, and the need for circuit changes due to it; tho' not necessarily due to CMOS) a few times in his VCO chip cookbook. And I'm sure you know it's fairly common knowledge that breadboards can make for some strange results AT TIMES. (This IS a thread about strange results.) Here's one link that came up near the top of a search of "parasitic capacitance in Breadboards": http://www.electronics-lab.com/forum/forums.html?topic=10445.0 Sure seems like a few of the guys there are familiar with it?
Quote: | but it's sure not been my experience at all. I've been using solderless breadboards for CMOS design for years. |
And IMO that's at least part of the answer for your success. You do things "naturally" that minimise any bad results. Even amid the tangle of of your photo, one can easily see that you've been breadboarding a Long time. (Nice pic BTW!)
A person new to breadboarding may not have any idea there even "could" be a problem due to things you take for granted and know how to avoid. This thread stands as proof of that. Seems worthwhle to mention that the breadboard itself has some component properties?
Kind regards, Randal |
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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
Ummm, Pots are variable resistors measured in ohms. Capacitors are measured in Farads, and uF...
Put the 100uF capacitor back across the power supply and leave it there. (If cap is what you meant in the 2nd sentence.) Now what happens when you turn the pot? Have you any .1uf or .01uf Capacitors across the power supply pins of the CMOS chip (And near it)? If not, add one. Now what happens?
ayeyen wrote: | Okay, weirdness. I removed the 100uF pot from the power source because it wasn't doing much of anything. I also added a 10uF pot from ground to pin 10 (the beginnings of a second oscillator). Now, when i turn it on (with the pot all the way round) I get a staticy almost-am-radio sound, then when i turn the pot down and back up I get the usual square wave. If I start with the pot low, nothing happens. |
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deleted_account-2192
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject:
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Deleted. Last edited by deleted_account-2192 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
While cruising the resulting links of the search on "Parasitic capacitance in breadboards" I came across this interesting and useful PDF of about 90+ pages: http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Associated_Docs/322486563Section9.pdf
While much of it is devoted to analog circuits of much higher frequencies than we usually have to deal with, it still contains a number of useful ideas and practical information pertinent to this thread, and indeed useful to anyone involved with Analog circuitry. Many of the references and authors are well-known for their expertise, (Pease, Jung, Ott et al) and the paper itself originates from some people who "should" know at least a bit about Analog design practices and pitfalls.
Perhaps worthy of another thread? is this next part. Beginning on page 19 is a discussion about using switching supplies with analog circuits. IMO this has some useful ideas and information on this oft-discussed and debated subject.
IMO it's a download-and-keeper. Hope you find it useful!
Kind regards, Randal |
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