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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Cwejman Sound
system to control Cwejman EQ
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erich



Joined: Jan 08, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: system to control Cwejman EQ Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not exactly sure if this will work the way I'd like it to or not, so if someone would tell me how to do this I'd be very thankful.

I want to have pretty extensive control as to the character of eq changes in real time. One or two pedals that output CVs, into some multiples, but from the multiples I need to be able to invert CV's and then scale the ranges, and also define where the ranges begin and end. I may want the movement of the pedal (or pedals) to cause extreme changes in the eq frequency, but slight changes in the resonance value, and an even more extreme sweep in one of the other eq channels value, you probably get the picture, hope it makes sense. I was looking at other companies, but just found the cwejman Four Channel Voltage Controller and it may be exactly what I need. I would like to be able to define a kind of base frequency range for each EQ channel, say I want the frequency of one channel to be centered around 200hz, and sweep up and down by 100, but then have another EQ channel centered at around 500hz, and sweep up or down by 200hz, then have the gain of one channel raise by 6dB, and the gain of another channel lower by 3dB, etc. All using one or two pedals for control. Could I use the offset and level controls on the Channel Voltage Controller to do this? And the att-4 quad attenuater level/bias shifter, what is that used for? Could it help here?. Can someone help me figure out how to do this? Does it sound like I can do these things with these two modules? I think that I can probably accomplish some of these things but maybe not all of them.

Thanks very much for any help
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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't have M-ATT4, but I think it can do what you want. I am not sure how the master section works though.

If I am not mistaken: When a plug is insterted to a VC input of the EQ module, the corresponding knob is disabled. This seems to necessitate something like the M-ATT4. My VC-ADSR2 behaves like this, and I think it is unconvenient.

If in doubt, you should ask Mr. Cwejman. He is very helpful.
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erich



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the advice. I am really hoping this is possible. Cwejman is really taking CV control to a whole new level, from what I've seen from modular synths.
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Sound



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jari Jokinen wrote:
I don't have M-ATT4, but I think it can do what you want. I am not sure how the master section works though.

If I am not mistaken: When a plug is insterted to a VC input of the EQ module, the corresponding knob is disabled. This seems to necessitate something like the M-ATT4. My VC-ADSR2 behaves like this, and I think it is unconvenient.



Hi Jari.

When I plug any CV of my VCEQ-3, the corresponding knob works correctly.

When I plug any CV of my S1MK2's CV DADSR the corresponding knob works correctly.

It is odd what you say about your VC-ADSR2.

Regards.

Last edited by Sound on Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sound



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: system to control Cwejman EQ Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

erich wrote:
, but from the multiples I need to be able to invert CV's and then scale the ranges,


Well I don't know about pedals but, It seems that you need a DC multiplier, and inverter ,and attenuators.

Look the attenuators of Analogue solutions: ATT4 - Quad (4x) Attenuator:

http://www.analoguesolutions.com/

Inverter :

Doepfer a175

Look at this interesting DIY attenuator/Inverter:

http://www.modular.fonik.de/pdf/f_mixer.pdf

I think that fonik still have PCB available in DIY subforum.

About the multiples, I have read that for the DC is better an active multiple than ej. a passive like doepfer a-180.

look at this:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/ControlVoltageDist/ControlVoltageDist.html




Best Regards,

Òscar.
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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
Hi Jari.

When I plug any CV of my VCEQ-3, the corresponding knob works correctly.

When I plug any CV of my S1MK2's CV DADSR the corresponding knob works correctly.

It is odd what you say about your VC-ADSR2.

Regards.

It is indeed an odd feature of some Cwejman modules. I thought VCEQ-3 was one of them. Perhaps the design has been updated. When did you purchase yours?
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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
Well I don't know about pedals but, It seems that you need a DC multiplier, and inverter ,and attenuators..
If offset is not needed, these should do the job too. Worth of considering would then be Analogue Systems RS230, which is an active multiplier and inverter:
http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs230.htm

Quote:
Look the attenuators of Analogue solutions: ATT4 - Quad (4x) Attenuator:
I have ATT4, but if I would buy a passive attenuator now, I would get Plan B Model 9 mixer/attenuator: Only 2 HP more, but much more versatile.

Quote:
...About the multiples, I have read that for the DC is better an active multiple than ej. a passive like doepfer a-180.
But I suppose the very slight voltage drop caused by passive multipliers wouldn't matter here.
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Sound



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jari Jokinen wrote:
Sound wrote:
Hi Jari.

When I plug any CV of my VCEQ-3, the corresponding knob works correctly.

When I plug any CV of my S1MK2's CV DADSR the corresponding knob works correctly.

It is odd what you say about your VC-ADSR2.

Regards.

It is indeed an odd feature of some Cwejman modules. I thought VCEQ-3 was one of them. Perhaps the design has been updated. When did you purchase yours?


Hi , My VCQ3 is from december 2006.
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Sound



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jari Jokinen wrote:
Sound wrote:
Well I don't know about pedals but, It seems that you need a DC multiplier, and inverter ,and attenuators..
If offset is not needed, these should do the job too. Worth of considering would then be Analogue Systems RS230, which is an active multiplier and inverter:
http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs230.htm


Oh! interesting module . That seems that one Analogue Sistems RS230 + one Analogue Solutions ATT4 could be what erich needs.

And If I have understood the Cwejman M-ATT4, it is designed for VC the VCEQ, so it is an option also.

Quote:
Quote:
Look the attenuators of Analogue solutions: ATT4 - Quad (4x) Attenuator:
I have ATT4, but if I would buy a passive attenuator now, I would get Plan B Model 9 mixer/attenuator: Only 2 HP more, but much more versatile. .


It is much better and much more versatile the Cwejman VCA-4MX.

Quote:
Quote:
...About the multiples, I have read that for the DC is better an active multiple than ej. a passive like doepfer a-180.
But I suppose the very slight voltage drop caused by passive multipliers wouldn't matter here.


I think that the problem is when you want to split a V/Octave signal, or you want to work with the same OUT signal amplitud than the signal INPUT.



Regards.

Last edited by Sound on Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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erich



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks to everyone for the discussion. I keep checking back in and learning new things
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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
It is much better and much more versatile the Cwejman VCA-4MX.
I don't have Plan B M9, but VCA-4MX is one of my favourite modules! It is also perhaps the most expensive module per square cm available... As a mixer, M9 is versatile, but VCA-4MX works as quad VCA, is 4HP smaller and is of high quality.
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Sound



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jari Jokinen wrote:
Sound wrote:
It is much better and much more versatile the Cwejman VCA-4MX.
I don't have Plan B M9, but VCA-4MX is one of my favourite modules! It is also perhaps the most expensive module per square cm available... As a mixer, M9 is versatile, but VCA-4MX works as quad VCA, is 4HP smaller and is of high quality.


Yes works as a quad VCA , as a CV mixer, as a attenuator, Invert the signal...

But I don't have it, Could you tell me about the noise? Is quiet? Can you listen any cross talk within the differen chanels?




Best regards,

Òscar.
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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
But I don't have it, Could you tell me about the noise? Is quiet? Can you listen any cross talk within the differen chanels?

EDIT: Ok, my system is up again and I did some tests: Turning volume really high revealed some cross talk. Perhaps if compression is used or the sources are very unequal in volume, it could matter. I am not an expert to judge.

I didn't have the courage to turn volume high enough to hear any added noise.

I could use one improvement: a global switch for lin/semi-logarithmic response. Regarding the semi-logarithmic response, it is much closer to logarithmic than linear (comparing with VCA-2P, which has lin/log switch).
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erich



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hope someone sees this, I've been to busy to think about this for a bit


[Oh! interesting module . That seems that one Analogue Sistems RS230 + one Analogue Solutions ATT4 could be what erich needs.

And If I have understood the Cwejman M-ATT4, it is designed for VC the VCEQ, so it is an option also.
]


These two modules from analogue solutions and analogue systems look like they would cover the inversion and the attenuating, but I'd like to be able to specify different ranges for each EQ channel (which I believe the attenuating would solve), BUT also where each range is centered. I would need to be able to adjust so one EQ channel would only sweep from 500Hz to 700Hz, but another channel would only sweep from 250Hz to 300Hz, another channel from 850Hz to 950Hz, etc. not to mention adjusting the gain and resonance settings using different ranges at different points within the total available range, if that makes sense. The attenuators could adjust the range, but I still don't see a way to define where that range begins and ends. Could I just use the knobs to set where the range was centered? I'm thinking that the offset control on the Cwejman might be used for this. (I just emailed cwejman to ask about this) Basically I'd like to be able to morph between EQ settings. I just got Max/MSP, and have a midi to cv converter. This could be done using those, but if it is possible, and not incredibly expensive, I'd like to be able to do it without a computer. Please let me know if I'm communicating this clearly, I'd be glad to try to adjust my explaination if it isn't coming across well. Again, thanks to everyone for the help. [/quote]
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Sound



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi erich.

The center is done by the frequency knob of the EQ.

Ej 500hz

If you input a LFO to the freq input, the cut off point will sweep from 16hz to 16khz.

If you attenuate the LFO signal you could swep the cut off point ej 300hz to 900hz . It means that with an attenuator you can control the amplitude of the sweep.

Any way, if you buy these modules and a passive multiplier, you can start to experiment with them and understand about it and also how can work the m-att-4 and if you need it.

Also they are a very useful modules that you always will use. Also they are cheap.



Oscar -the beguinner- Very Happy
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erich



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I emailed Cwejman about this, he said:

"the annouced M-ATT4 is an interface for controlling of attenuation and voltage offset for each channel (totally four). There is additionally a master offset and voltage spread (dedicated for the RES-4). The M-ATT4 has no fixed bias control as the ATT-4 has. The bias control (by switch) convert the incomming standarized voltage +- 5 Volts (waveform outputs from VCO-2RM and D-LFO and others) to 0 to 5 Volts for controlling of parameters such as level, q-peak and others"

I wrote:

I would like to be able to define a kind of base frequency range for each EQ channel, say I want the frequency of one channel to be centered around 200hz, and sweep up and down by 100, but then have another EQ channel centered at around 500hz, and sweep up or down by 200hz, then have the gain of one channel raise by 6dB, and the gain of another channel lower by 3dB, etc.

he wrote:

"The M-ATT4 and ATT-4 has no build-in voltage limiters so it can't be done exactly as you want. Maybe other companies has limiting voltage processors."

He was very helpful and made it a point to tell me to email him again if I had more questions. Which I might, at some poiint, but I must say I'm getting to the point where I might just buy the Cwejman EQ and dig into Max/MSP to control it. I know I can set up exactly what a want if I'm willing to spend the time with that. Any new suggestions? Voltage limiters out there? I hope this is giving other people a little bit of useful info as well
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