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 Forum index » Discussion » Diversity in electro-music
women or lgbtq people doing diy?
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: women or lgbtq people doing diy? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

liquidpaper wrote:
i don't know how much it matters, but i'm female, gay, and doing the breadboarding thing, so i was just wondering if there's anyone else out there.

i'm a beginner and have so far built a theremin, a little toy organ, an atari punk console, and a bunch of other forrest mims circuits. i've bent a few toys.


Hi!

Well it seems your post has resulted in a lot of hairsplitting discussion about words, labels, etc.

Well I'm not interested in that discussion.

I just think it is way cool to encounter any sort of female who is into any kind of music aside from acoustic/folk or diva solos. I'm a female who plays electric guitar, bass and just started to learn keyboard/synth and MIDI. I'm constantly in the minority, often the ONLY one. I walk into Guitar Center and am the only woman except for a few bored wives or moms buying their sons equipment. Oh and I am also a minority because of age; I'm old enough to be the mom of almost any guy in the store.

I looked at the pics of electro-music 2007 and didn't see one female in the entire bunch.

Actually for a single woman it is kind of nice, if one is interested in the opposite sex. Smile Even just for looking.

So I just wanted to say HI to you, and it is too bad you are probably in England or somewhere, because I'd love to meet another woman who plays this kind of stuff. I aspire to knowing how to build electronic stuff, but that's probably beyond my abilities in this life. Growing up in the 50s, women weren't expected or encouraged to learn anything more technical than vacuum cleaners. Evil or Very Mad

Especially I'd love to meet one who knows how to build a Theremin... because my daughter is interested in the theremin and wants one!!!

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On the topic of building a theremin, I have built the Theremax kit from PAIA and can tell you it is worth the price. The instructions are very clear, and the customer support from PAIA is superb. FWIW
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
On the topic of building a theremin, I have built the Theremax kit from PAIA and can tell you it is worth the price. The instructions are very clear, and the customer support from PAIA is superb. FWIW


Do you have a website link for this?
I have watched my son do electronics on his guitar with a soldering gun, but personally I have no hands-on experience.

After you build the theremin, does it sound and work like the "real" one? My daughter & I checked out a Moog Etherwave theremin at Guitar Center and she thought it kicked ass!! Maybe she'll just save up the exorbitant $400 and get one, who knows.

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

www.paia.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It does not sound the same as an Etherwave or RCA, but is quite good. If the budget is there the Etherwave pre-built may be the better way to go.
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
It does not sound the same as an Etherwave or RCA, but is quite good. If the budget is there the Etherwave pre-built may be the better way to go.


It doesn't look like a "real" theremin either. When your heart is set on an instrument, you want the whole package... looks, sound, operation.

A substitute just isn't the same. It's like when i wanted the Ibanez banjo, not the build it yourself model.

Although, I'm afraid it will be like a lot of other musical instruments... once the novelty wears off, that's it.

For me, what keeps me from neglecting a musical instrument is the ability to play with others and thus have social/musical interaction.

There aren't too many bands with theremins.... except, of course, in the electro world. Confused

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It is a real theremin. It just happens to be a Dodge neon version of one. It is sold for the DIY community to build their own, which is what I thought you were asking for.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As to how the PAIA theremin looks, the lectern case is actually closer to the cabinet style of the RCA theremin which is about as "real" as it gets.
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
As to how the PAIA theremin looks, the lectern case is actually closer to the cabinet style of the RCA theremin which is about as "real" as it gets.


Oh. Sorry...that just shows how much I know about Theremins.

The only one I ever saw was a Moog Etherwave they were selling at Guitar Center.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not a problem. The Etherwave is a very nice instrument. I have seen some players get amazing sound from them. The Etherwave Pro takes that to an incredible level. It's enhanced expressiveness is, I understand, the ultimate in modern theremin technology, but is for most of us prohibitively expensive.
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liquidpaper



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi laura woodswalker! good to see that your daughter is interested in the theremin. does she have any interest in electronics or in building things? i'm also a teacher and always bring in things i've built for my students to use. after they use circuits i've made, i find the next comment is almost always, "how did you make this?" lots of kids have an interest in it.

i don't really "know" how to play the keyboard in the formal sense, but i still make little ones and play them. i had a brief foray into piano lessons as a child (which, gratefully, enabled me to read music), but beyond that i just sort of go with the flow.

and by the way, to the poster who suggested reading "elements of radio:"

THAT BOOK IS AWESOME. thank you so much. it is exactly what i've been looking for. outdated in many respects, but still SO worthwhile.
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

liquidpaper wrote:
hi laura woodswalker! good to see that your daughter is interested in the theremin. does she have any interest in electronics or in building things?


Regrettably, no. She is quite intimidated by anything technical. My 2 sons on the other hand LIVE for Technology. Go figure. I don't know if gender role-modeling/programming or whatever had anything to do with it or not. By the same token as a child I had no interest in such things either. My mom was a writer, my dad a math professor. Poetry, writing & art were ok for girls. Math /science were for Guys.

Since I got divorced I became interested in everything Handyman just for survival reasons and now I would love to learn how to build Electronic things. But I don't know if I could build a theremin because the most complicated thing I built was a wooden futon frame.

What would really be cool would be to get the kit and my daughter and I both learn how to build it together. I wonder if she'd go for that.Laughing That's why in my previous posts I wondered how it compared with the Etherwave theremin she played at Guitar Center.

Do you play the theremin and compose music with it?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: women or lgbtq people doing diy? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:
I looked at the pics of electro-music 2007 and didn't see one female in the entire bunch.


I don't know what pictures you saw, but there were lots of women at electro-music 2007. If you check out Hong's photos you will see:
Robin Manganaro
Toni Victor
Agnes Wajdyk
Ashley Mokris
Ramona Herboldsheimer
Berae McClary
Beth Binkovitz
Genny Moscovitz
Juli Moscovitz
Rebecca Fiebrink
Lynn Bechtold
Hong Waltzer
Rebecca Mercuri
Nikki Leung
Margaret Noble
Tickey
Patty Castner
Leigh Ann Moscovitz
Tara Buzash

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

liquidpaper wrote:
and by the way, to the poster who suggested reading "elements of radio:"

THAT BOOK IS AWESOME. thank you so much. it is exactly what i've been looking for. outdated in many respects, but still SO worthwhile.


Thanks for the feedback. Glad you are enjoying it. Yes, it's a bit outdated, but it gives you a good intuitive understanding you can use to go into the field deeper if you choose.

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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject:  Re: women or lgbtq people doing diy? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

egw wrote:
laura woodswalker wrote:
I looked at the pics of electro-music 2007 and didn't see one female in the entire bunch.


I don't know what pictures you saw, but there were lots of women at electro-music 2007. If you check out Hong's photos you will see:
Robin Manganaro
Toni Victor
Agnes Wajdyk
Ashley Mokris
Ramona Herboldsheimer
Berae McClary
Beth Binkovitz
Genny Moscovitz
Juli Moscovitz
Rebecca Fiebrink
Lynn Bechtold
Hong Waltzer
Rebecca Mercuri
Nikki Leung
Margaret Noble
Tickey
Patty Castner
Leigh Ann Moscovitz
Tara Buzash


Cool! I hope I get to go to the fest & meet some of those folks!

I guess I just looked at the electro music homepage and there were some pix of dudes hanging around.

Don't get me wrong...I don't have anything against Dudes, Guys etc. Cool

If anyone can show me about MIDI, rack modules and other arcane things, it doesn't matter what gender they are!

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liquidpaper



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, and another thing: sometimes how-to things that show you how to make things are ultra-male in the way they are thought out, set up, and expressed.

which is a weird thing for me to say, because there is so much variety in the thinking styles of various males that i don't know if there is such a thing as "male thinking" (ditto for females), but i don't know how else to explain it.

sometimes i just look at a schematic or a description of how to do something and i'm just like: why in the HELL did they explain it that way?? other times i realize this idiotic way of describing things costs me hours of extra time tinkering around and trying to figure out why on earth a thing doesn't work.

the only way i can describe this phenomenon is that it is like being instructed to sequentially look at 19283459823498518973487634987612 trees individually, without having any idea why i am being asked to look at them. why not just say, "this is a forest." after that i can understand/give a shit/have some concept of why i am looking at these trees. if you don't tell me that, i simply stare at trees 1 - 19283459823498518973487634987612, invariably messing up on, say, tree 58765876576, and thereby throwing a monkey wrench in the whole operation.

i started off by building little circuits and things, but for the longest time nobody could explain to me what was actually happening in the circuit, what happened to the electricity as it moved through the circuit, or why a certain component goes in a particular place. i still don't really know. i've started to understand a little, but why would you not START by explaining that, and then move forward? i don't get it. i really do feel that if there was more variety among people doing electronics, especially from the get-go, things would be different.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

liquidpaper wrote:
i started off by building little circuits and things, but for the longest time nobody could explain to me what was actually happening in the circuit, what happened to the electricity as it moved through the circuit, or why a certain component goes in a particular place. i still don't really know. i've started to understand a little, but why would you not START by explaining that, and then move forward? i don't get it. i really do feel that if there was more variety among people doing electronics, especially from the get-go, things would be different.


Re: electronics - I think the reason people (even pros and those who write books on the subject) can't explain properly is because they actually don't know! When I studied electronics at slightly below college level (for a very short while), I got the impression that lab assistants and even teachers were to a large degree self-taught, from the very awkward way they chose to explain things like extra-element-theorem etc. Electronics isn't learned from a basic level, it seems. You're supposed to just dive in - I found this difficult to handle personally.

Re: explaining stuff - my experience is that most of both genders are bad at communicating knowledge, though honestly the female statistics are unreliable in my world of programmers. Mastering pedagogy is sorely underestimated in nerdy sciences.

/Stefan

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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="Antimon"]
liquidpaper wrote:


Re: explaining stuff - my experience is that most of both genders are bad at communicating knowledge, though honestly the female statistics are unreliable in my world of programmers. Mastering pedagogy is sorely underestimated in nerdy sciences.
/Stefan


Yeah. Teaching & training are important skills in themselves.

I've been thru a lot of jobs and I'm always a Newby, so I got a feel for what you need to understand to start out a new skill. I actually was given the task of training people at my one graphics job, and I'd always start out with an Overview: "basically this is what we are trying to accomplish, and this is a broad outline of how we do it." Once the person gets that, then I'd get into the basics of step one etc. Let them try the first few steps before we do anything more difficult, because you can't really learn till you do it yourself.

People said I was actually a very good trainer. So I think this method works!

Then last year I got all these Dummies' books. Dummies book of basic chemistry, physics, electronics. I wanted a basic understanding of "what is carbon dioxide, what is methane, what is electricity."

I learned a heck of a lot. The only thing missing is a chance to get hands-on skill with wiring, soldering etc. I just don't know how to get started on these things. People will let me watch, but they don't have time for a newbie to experiment with their projects.

I don't know if there is gender bias or not, maybe if I'd been a guy my Dad would have let me try these things with his guidance. You really need a mentor for this kind of stuff. Girls didn't get to take "shop" when I went to school.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My experience with circuits was that I first built them from kits or other instructions without really understanding how they worked, but as time progressed I learned more and more.

I don't know if the communication problems are a male thing. Techies generally seem to lack communication skills, male and female.



It kinda defeats my message that Dilbert is a male, but I've met lots of females that are just as bad... Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's a chronic problem in all technical fields that people who understand and work with machines (including electronics) really well, generally aren't as good at understanding and dealing with people. I'm a classic example. Even though I've learned how to deal with people over time (I'm over 40 now) it doesn't come naturally to me. It makes me feel very tired, anxious and stressed, because I'm constantly double guessing what the other person is thinking and/or feeling. Spending time alone with my computer or a breadboard or ExpressPCB recharges my batteries. Classic introvert I s'pose.
"Everyday I talk to my machines,
More sense than talking to human beings" - Regurgitator

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
It's a chronic problem in all technical fields that people who understand and work with machines (including electronics) really well, generally aren't as good at understanding and dealing with people. Spending time alone with my computer or a breadboard or ExpressPCB recharges my batteries. Classic introvert I s'pose.
"Everyday I talk to my machines,
More sense than talking to human beings" - Regurgitator


Hmm. Learning Things. My whole experience with keyboards, MIDI, recording & other technical Music Stuff: What has made it difficult is that there is so much technical language that when someone tells me something, I don't understand what they're talking about. It's like they're talking in a foreign language. My main mission has been just to get an Overview of the Basic ideas. Then I can fill in the gaps later.

I once read that men & women learn things differently. Something about how men are better at abstract stuff and women have more "connections" between the 2 brain sides so they want to know the big picture, how it all relates to each other.

perhaps that's true, because the learning processes of the past few years, from chemistry to biology to music, have been all about getting a general idea and then going on to the next thing.

when I learn it all, maybe I can put it all together & make musical compositions that express my fascination with molecular biology, the origin of life on Earth, and life on other worlds!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:

perhaps that's true, because the learning processes of the past few years, from chemistry to biology to music, have been all about getting a general idea and then going on to the next thing.

I do the same and I am not a woman Cool Often when reading a manual, for example, I keep reading it even if I don't understand everything to get a general idea then I go back and try to work step by step to absorb it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm currently part of the teaching team for home schooling a 13 year old. My wife is doing a lot, but she says what I do is valuable. The kid is very much into this year's syllabus.

I bought him Velleman kits. There used to be Radio Shack stuff in the states. We live overseas (I have since found out Velleman has made inroads in the states too) but lacking Radio Shack, I needed to do a few things: First, introduce the pupil to electronics, by whatever ways we could, then start with technique on building kits, and then discuss how the kits worked.

So we did about 6 weeks of DC theory. V=IR stuff, serial and parallel resistors. I coupled this with using the TI calculator. If you don't know Ohm's Law, well, maybe you should. It's fundamental. Anyway, we did about 4 weeks of serial and parallel resistor circuit analyses. This is progressive and kinda fun, you can use the calculator to see it and websites abound.

Then I started the kits. This was to get up soldering technique. He advanced amazingly. He stopped trying to melt holes in the base of the iron, and got clue over the next couple of months. He is now adept at building kits. This means he follows instructions. His grade was based on quality of connections, did he follow the build plan, did it work, and did he clean up.

He got slapped 3 weeks ago on a project. He put the socket in backwards for the IC and failed to test before he submitted the project for grade. It didn't work on power on, looking at the directions (he works on this unsupervised) I realised he had put the socket in backwards then put the chip in true to the socket. He got a whack on that (b-) although once reversed the circuit worked fine. He hasn't repeated that mistake.

He's basically adept now at soldering. Hasn't burned himself or cared to admit that he has. He is ready for the next step.

My point here is that there is more than one discipline. I aim to get him into programming. In order to do that, we need to have a project (robotics). We will discuss the functions of a robot and then approach programming from the same direction as this. His skill at soldering is now established. Now we can work on circuit designs. However he understands basic DC theory.

I want to make him program his TI calculator before I make him program a PIC. That's on this year's agenda.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome.

In the States, "home-schooling" is often a code-word for parents who don't want their kids going to public school and learning how NOT to hate people different from themselves. What you're doing is what home schooling OUGHT to be.

Inspiring!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
What you're doing is what home schooling OUGHT to be.
Inspiring!


Seconded!

Truly great stuff, personally I feel this is the sort of road future parents should think about. I'm deeply impressed, even if on some level I feel this kind of thing should be perfectly normal.

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