electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
Is my mixer set up right?
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [13 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Is my mixer set up right? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello everybody in engineering/mixing world! Very Happy
I usually spend most of my time in DIY, but I have a very specific technical issue I could use some advice on.
Scott and Thomas's forays into midi routers have inspired me to do some actual music, and for the first time in a couple of years I started trying to finish off a track which really should see the light of day. When I started getting ready for the mixdown I realised something was just not right.
Here's the deal: -
I have my computer going into the 2track input on my mixer.
I send the Main Mix to the computer so I can easily record all my other equipment as it is mixed there, in one take to two stereo tracks.
I send the Control Room output to my monitor amp so I can listen to what's coming out of the computer (2trk->CntrlRm) and all the other instruments while I'm composing.
Of course I don't send the 2Track input to the Main Mix, as that would create a feedback loop through the computer.

If that description needs clarifying, I'll edit it later. I think it's enough for you to get the gist of the problem.
Which is: -
When I'm doing a mix down, I set my computer to record "What you hear", which is all of the MIDI instruments inside the computer, and all the off board equipment coming through the mixer, out through the main mix output, and into the line in of the computer.
But I'm listening to the Control Room mix, which is what you can hear from the computer plus the main mix. This means that all the instruments outside the computer sound louder than the level they are being recorded at.
Now, if I could set the computer to record the MIDI and Line In, without actually playing the Line In out to the mixer, that would be fine, but I can't.

I've ended up wondering whether I'm actually going about it all wrong, and need to re-connect everything a better way. Maybe hang my monitor amp straight off the computer? I'm sure there was a reason I didn't want to do that, but I can't remember what it was.

I really thought the way I've set it up was quite elegant, but I seriously doubt that now.

Any advice would be very welcome.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes and no.. and then there are issues with levels and such as well..

Which sound card do you have? You might have told me before, but I forget such stuff.. Rolling Eyes Very Happy

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got a Creative XFi Platinum.
_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´ve never heard of it. Shocked
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's really "just another Soundblaster". Laughing
But I must admit, it's quite nice, and has a few extra connection options, including a second stereo input (Aux2), and greatly improved effects routing in the software.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
It's really "just another Soundblaster". Laughing


So?

Huge numbers made mean you get a lot for your money and they are very compatible indeed. They aren't the best cards around but we all have budgets and choices and so on. You could do worse. :¬)

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, don't get me wrong, I quite like it. And as someone was pointing out the other day (was it you Kassen?) a PCI based card has better timing characteristics than USB or Firewire.
I meant "just another soundblaster" as in, yeah, they change the names all the time, but the basic architechure is the great step grandson of an SB16. (Which I also had, and was quite good at the time)
I would spend money on so many other things before I'd be bothered to change my soundcard. I just don't produce enough actual music to justify it. Then again, the reason for this thread might change that. Hopefully.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong, I quite like it. And as someone was pointing out the other day (was it you Kassen?) a PCI based card has better timing characteristics than USB or Firewire.


That was me but that's not exactly what I said. What I said is that PCI has the best *potential* for timing as far as buses go. I meant this like Vinyl has the *potential* to sound better then CD. In both cases the exact configuration of the whole system is the single largest factor.

Let's not disregard the potential of a well designed USB1 device in the hands of a expert or even a 486 running Dos3.3 with a parallel port interface on a dedicated and tweaked out box (see Sisters of Mercy or Dutch D&B terrorist Eye-D who both ran that configuration for ages).

But yes. I myself have a SB16 and a S3 Trio video card around here somewhere. If all else fails I know for sure those will always work and are supported by everything, compatibility is worth something too.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wonder if you perhaps should check out the manuals for more upmarket gear like the RME Fireface 800, as well as for monitoring boxes like the Samson C-Control and Presonus Monitor Station. That way you will get an idea of how the signal chain is usually handled. Then you can implement those ideas in your excisting setup.
It seems like you should use your mixer for capture and then instead dump the cue and monitor mixes to a second device.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Apart from possible level issues, what other problems would simply monitoring the output of the computer cause? I've been thinking that not having the monitoring go through the mixer may help with phase distortion, etc. Any credence in that? Confused
I remembered that the reason I didn't want it before was that I would have to boot the computer just to listen to CDs, but I can hang my CD player off another input to the monitor amp, fixes that. Wink
And,.... That would leave the 2Trk into the mixer as an extra line level input. (with all the DIY I've been getting into, I'll need some more inputs soon.) Very Happy
I'm probably gonna try it unless anyone has any doomsday predictions about it. Shocked

(Four different emoticons in the one post? Seraph will be pleased! Rolling Eyes (make that five) Surprised (okay, six))

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
slo



Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 204
Location: Victoria, BC
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm wondering if you found a solution to your mix down problems Uncle?
I have a similar setup and have often wondered if there is a better way

George
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi George,
Yeah, I went ahead with changing the setup.
I've decided to keep it nice and simple.

MX1602(main mix) --> PC XFi --> Monitor Amp

I was going to keep the control room outputs connected to a spare input on the monitor amp, but even then, I couldn't actually forsee a situation where I'd use them, so they've gone too. I figure every extra (unused) cable is another way for hum to get inside a case, and a potentially dodgy connection waiting to put a pop in a mixdown. As I'm trying to concentrate on mixing down and finishing quite a few tracks at the moment, I don't want anything complicating the situation and/or adding anything I don't want in the way of noise or artifacts. I have a few tracks which will require multiple sound sources being mixed down with the stuff on my DAW, otherwise, I'd probably consider giving the whole mixer a holiday as well. Laughing

BTW, I'm very happy with the new found sense of minimalism.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24079
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
BTW, I'm very happy with the new found sense of minimalism.


Minimalism worked good for me too a couple of years ago & still.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [13 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use