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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:19 am Post subject:
Is my mixer set up right? |
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Hello everybody in engineering/mixing world!
I usually spend most of my time in DIY, but I have a very specific technical issue I could use some advice on.
Scott and Thomas's forays into midi routers have inspired me to do some actual music, and for the first time in a couple of years I started trying to finish off a track which really should see the light of day. When I started getting ready for the mixdown I realised something was just not right.
Here's the deal: -
I have my computer going into the 2track input on my mixer.
I send the Main Mix to the computer so I can easily record all my other equipment as it is mixed there, in one take to two stereo tracks.
I send the Control Room output to my monitor amp so I can listen to what's coming out of the computer (2trk->CntrlRm) and all the other instruments while I'm composing.
Of course I don't send the 2Track input to the Main Mix, as that would create a feedback loop through the computer.
If that description needs clarifying, I'll edit it later. I think it's enough for you to get the gist of the problem.
Which is: -
When I'm doing a mix down, I set my computer to record "What you hear", which is all of the MIDI instruments inside the computer, and all the off board equipment coming through the mixer, out through the main mix output, and into the line in of the computer.
But I'm listening to the Control Room mix, which is what you can hear from the computer plus the main mix. This means that all the instruments outside the computer sound louder than the level they are being recorded at.
Now, if I could set the computer to record the MIDI and Line In, without actually playing the Line In out to the mixer, that would be fine, but I can't.
I've ended up wondering whether I'm actually going about it all wrong, and need to re-connect everything a better way. Maybe hang my monitor amp straight off the computer? I'm sure there was a reason I didn't want to do that, but I can't remember what it was.
I really thought the way I've set it up was quite elegant, but I seriously doubt that now.
Any advice would be very welcome. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:56 am Post subject:
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Yes and no.. and then there are issues with levels and such as well..
Which sound card do you have? You might have told me before, but I forget such stuff.. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject:
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I've got a Creative XFi Platinum. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:
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I´ve never heard of it. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:
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It's really "just another Soundblaster".
But I must admit, it's quite nice, and has a few extra connection options, including a second stereo input (Aux2), and greatly improved effects routing in the software. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:44 am Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus wrote: | It's really "just another Soundblaster". |
So?
Huge numbers made mean you get a lot for your money and they are very compatible indeed. They aren't the best cards around but we all have budgets and choices and so on. You could do worse. :¬) _________________ Kassen |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:40 am Post subject:
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I quite like it. And as someone was pointing out the other day (was it you Kassen?) a PCI based card has better timing characteristics than USB or Firewire.
I meant "just another soundblaster" as in, yeah, they change the names all the time, but the basic architechure is the great step grandson of an SB16. (Which I also had, and was quite good at the time)
I would spend money on so many other things before I'd be bothered to change my soundcard. I just don't produce enough actual music to justify it. Then again, the reason for this thread might change that. Hopefully. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus wrote: | Oh, don't get me wrong, I quite like it. And as someone was pointing out the other day (was it you Kassen?) a PCI based card has better timing characteristics than USB or Firewire. |
That was me but that's not exactly what I said. What I said is that PCI has the best *potential* for timing as far as buses go. I meant this like Vinyl has the *potential* to sound better then CD. In both cases the exact configuration of the whole system is the single largest factor.
Let's not disregard the potential of a well designed USB1 device in the hands of a expert or even a 486 running Dos3.3 with a parallel port interface on a dedicated and tweaked out box (see Sisters of Mercy or Dutch D&B terrorist Eye-D who both ran that configuration for ages).
But yes. I myself have a SB16 and a S3 Trio video card around here somewhere. If all else fails I know for sure those will always work and are supported by everything, compatibility is worth something too. _________________ Kassen |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:
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I wonder if you perhaps should check out the manuals for more upmarket gear like the RME Fireface 800, as well as for monitoring boxes like the Samson C-Control and Presonus Monitor Station. That way you will get an idea of how the signal chain is usually handled. Then you can implement those ideas in your excisting setup.
It seems like you should use your mixer for capture and then instead dump the cue and monitor mixes to a second device. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject:
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Apart from possible level issues, what other problems would simply monitoring the output of the computer cause? I've been thinking that not having the monitoring go through the mixer may help with phase distortion, etc. Any credence in that?
I remembered that the reason I didn't want it before was that I would have to boot the computer just to listen to CDs, but I can hang my CD player off another input to the monitor amp, fixes that.
And,.... That would leave the 2Trk into the mixer as an extra line level input. (with all the DIY I've been getting into, I'll need some more inputs soon.)
I'm probably gonna try it unless anyone has any doomsday predictions about it.
(Four different emoticons in the one post? Seraph will be pleased! (make that five) (okay, six)) _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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slo
Joined: Feb 18, 2007 Posts: 204 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:50 am Post subject:
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I'm wondering if you found a solution to your mix down problems Uncle?
I have a similar setup and have often wondered if there is a better way
George |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:52 am Post subject:
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Hi George,
Yeah, I went ahead with changing the setup.
I've decided to keep it nice and simple.
MX1602(main mix) --> PC XFi --> Monitor Amp
I was going to keep the control room outputs connected to a spare input on the monitor amp, but even then, I couldn't actually forsee a situation where I'd use them, so they've gone too. I figure every extra (unused) cable is another way for hum to get inside a case, and a potentially dodgy connection waiting to put a pop in a mixdown. As I'm trying to concentrate on mixing down and finishing quite a few tracks at the moment, I don't want anything complicating the situation and/or adding anything I don't want in the way of noise or artifacts. I have a few tracks which will require multiple sound sources being mixed down with the stuff on my DAW, otherwise, I'd probably consider giving the whole mixer a holiday as well.
BTW, I'm very happy with the new found sense of minimalism. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus wrote: | BTW, I'm very happy with the new found sense of minimalism. |
Minimalism worked good for me too a couple of years ago & still. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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