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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
stumped troubleshooting my klee
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factus10



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: stumped troubleshooting my klee Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi guys,

I've managed to solder it together with a minimum of crossed wires. However... Pattern A acts as if it's not reading the pots.

Pattern B works fine. Clock works fine. Gate, pattern buss, manual load, 8x2 and 16x1, invert b, range, var range... all are good. Pattern LEDs are ok... mostly Pattern A is dimmer than Pattern B

Here's what I've tried:
swapping U8 and U9
swapping U1/U2 with U3/U4

And it's just occurred to me that if Pattern A is dimmer than B, the 4034 switching A isn't putting out a full 5V... enough to light the LED, not enough to switch the 4066.

Ok, off to test that theory Smile

David
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a good place to start. Actually, the CD4034 should be sending more like between +14 and +15V to the CD4066s.

If your theory doesn't work out, take a look at the voltage arriving at the top of pots 1 through 8. Dial up a 1 bit sequence and step it through; though probably looking at one pot will tell you if the range voltage is getting to the pots.

Let me know what you find!

Cheers,
Scott

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factus10



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Scott. I switched the 4034s and led dimness moved from A to B. I've ordered some backup parts from mouser and will probably tackle this again in a few days.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm.....another naughty 4034. Curious - do you know what make it is? (TI, RCA?).

Hope you get to Kleeing soon.....

Cheers,
Scott

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Factus,

Who made the CD4034 that failed. I had distributed TI's and another odd ball brand that I purchased from Hosfelt Electronics. The logo I could not ID. Did you get your parts from me? I will replace any IC if you got it from me.

I remember that when I first powered my Klee prototype, the "A" bank also went bad and the cause was the CD4034. I just chalked it up to a bad IC and moved on. Funny how it's always BANK "A" unless the bad IC's just happen to be in bank "A" by coincidence. Question

Thanks,
Bill
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factus10



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys,

Well, I finally got back to this. My gf and I live on a horse farm and time is a bit precious, so I haven't had any chance to poke around for a while.

Anyway, I ordered some new 4034s and just popped them in. Both work like a charm with a new quirk:

I can program both A and B via my switches and the manual load button. For what it's worth, manual step works for me too... as well as the random in.

So... here's the quirk: A rotates out and doesn't wrap around. It will follow the pattern I put in until it shifts it out. Then nada.

Adding to the fun: random mode works for A regardless of the pattern/random switch.

So, I'm off to look at the schematic to see if anything jumps off the page at me. I suspect I have another bad part. Maybe Smile

Bill, the bad 4034 was an SCL part. My replacements are TI.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
So... here's the quirk: A rotates out and doesn't wrap around. It will follow the pattern I put in until it shifts it out. Then nada.

Adding to the fun: random mode works for A regardless of the pattern/random switch.

So, I'm off to look at the schematic to see if anything jumps off the page at me. I suspect I have another bad part. Maybe Smile

Bill, the bad 4034 was an SCL part. My replacements are TI.


The circuits involved here are U9 on the digital card. This is the MUX that routes the shift register outputs and inputs. Also check the wiring of SW340 8/16 select, SW341 RAND/PAT select and check SW342 INVERT for good measure but does not seem likely to be a problem.

This switching and this MUX are very important to how the bits get routed in the Klee.

Hmmmm, another SCL part. Thats what I had expected. Shocked
Let me know and I could send you 2 replacements.

Good luck ....... we will get it working Very Happy

Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
So, I'm off to look at the schematic to see if anything jumps off the page at me. I suspect I have another bad part.


Mmmmyess. My very thin and sparse "Klee" theory thread was to have this section as the next installment. In fact, it seems to me that I diagrammed the operation a while back in preparation for posting it. The thing is, the schematic is correct, but drawing it using the IC switch as a single IC makes it look much more complicated than it really is. I'll see what I have done and, if it's complete enough, I'll post it here shortly.

In any event, it could be a matter of some crossed wire connectons perhops.....

Cheerio,
Scott

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BTW, I forgot to mention, your Klee is stuck in Random mode. The behavior you describe is functionally 8X2 Mode with Random on. Does 16X1 mode work? If Random is stuck on, the 16X1 mode will bleed off the pattern as well as it cycles through, rather than recycling.

Cheerio,
Scott

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factus10



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's exactly what it does. Time to look at the switch, I think.


hmm... switch is ok. And I have continuity from the switch to pin 11 (22kish ohms)

The random/pattern switch should pull pin 11 low for pattern mode? I'm getting 14.8v on pin 11 and it doesn't change when throwing the switch. My guess is a bad ground then.

Does that make sense?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The voltage on Pin 11 should switch between high and low as you switch between Random and Pattern modes - does the voltage change when you flip the switch?

I found my diagram, but the logic is reversed on it - glad I didn't post it yet....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm....you should have a direct connection (close to 0 Ohms) from the switch to pin 11 on one post of the switch and a direct connection to ground on the other post of the switch. The switch connects the 22K pullup resistor (R50) to ground, which switches the voltage on pin 11.
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factus10



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Found it: a flaky connection in my connector. I traced the signal from the switch to the pin and stumbled across it. Wasn't sure if it was my unsteady hand or a bad connection Smile

The lights are so pretty when they're blinking!

Now to tune the range pots.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Woo-hoo!!

I had a couple of those flaky connection things - my early crimps weren't so hot til I got the hang of it.

Cheerio,
Scott

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factus10



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One last Q: I got negative voltages on U8 pin 1. I have no idea why.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There should be negative voltages there - Uncle K pointed that out to me a good long while ago - I thought I had that fixed in the latest build doc or correction sheet thereof(?).


Sorry 'bout that. Negative, positive, it's all good Laughing

Cheerio,
Scott

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factus10



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yay! I'm a happy camper.

I plan to take some pictures and post 'em this week.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm looking forward to it!
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