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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Windows as a music workstation
When does XP 'run out'?
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: When does XP 'run out'? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read somewhere that Microsoft were going to discontinue development of XP this month. Have I heard wrong? Does any one know? My wife wants a copy of Windows to run on her Mac, but doesn't want a dud (or Vista for that matter!).

Tom Smile

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What do you mean .. run out ... I still have a windows 95 machine running somewhere Very Happy

Look at :

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

and here

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah- it's now June 30th?! Laughing

You got to give it to these duds....oops I mean dudes! Wink Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My understanding is there will be an service pack 3. This implies MS is still working on XP. I did hear about an end to XP support. Or maybe it was sales of new boxed licenses. Or maybe it's actually new PC purchases that won't have XP licenses any more. That makes the most sense.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Ah- it's now June 30th?!


for the last license to be sold, and there should be be a SP3 indeed (should have been out, but they seem to have some Vista trouble Question ) and support will stop even later, so there will be security updates for a while as well, a couple of years I suppose, but I was too lazy to read through the links I gave Embarassed

XP without a computer is pretty expensive BT(Legal)W, so maybe best to help a Vista adept off the old and useless XP ...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Or maybe it's actually new PC purchases that won't have XP licenses any more. That makes the most sense.


...And that's another new car for mr.Jobs....

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
My understanding is there will be an service pack 3. This implies MS is still working on XP. I did hear about an end to XP support. Or maybe it was sales of new boxed licenses. Or maybe it's actually new PC purchases that won't have XP licenses any more. That makes the most sense.


Yes- that's pretty much what I heard too.

My next major computer will probably be a PC. I just don't want it to have Vista Shocked

Not that I think Vista is totally shit, but I really can't stand all that uber-eye candy! Evil or Very Mad

Mac OS X has quite a bit of 'eye candy', but at least it's there for a purpose. Vista just seems to have it 'because it can' Confused

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
jksuperstar wrote:
Or maybe it's actually new PC purchases that won't have XP licenses any more. That makes the most sense.


...And that's another new car for mr.Jobs....


Well not at the rate that the iPhone and Macbook Air are selling (or NOT selling more like!)

I like the new Air Book thingie very much- it's just a shame that it costs so much money, and the iPhone isn't really working here, because most people in Britain like more choice of networks.

My next 'iPhone' will probably be made by Palm too.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Well not at the rate that the iPhone and Macbook Air are selling (or NOT selling more like!)



http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/03/macbook-air-selling-out/

and the iPhone is doing well too.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well that maybe the case in the States, but it certainly isn't the case here.

The reason I'm probably having to shift to PC is because all the work I have spent training on over the past 3 years, is pretty much PC only. It really fucks me off- but what else can I do about it?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Then again, all my info has mainly come from MacUser magazine, which seems to be slowly turning into VistaUser- judging by the website! Shocked Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:

Well not at the rate that the iPhone and Macbook Air are selling (or NOT selling more like!)


I don't think those were ever meant to sell well, I think those were prestige objects.

A cellphone with no camera, only last century networking, no third party software, hooked to one provider nobody ever heard of at a premium price?

A ultra-thin laptop with only a single USB port?

I think Jobs knew before they were even announced those wouldn't sell, those are the marketing equivalents of trolls, meant to draw attention to the brand, then actually sell different products. If they planed to sell any, don't you think they would've made them more useful and competitive?

Quote:

I like the new Air Book thingie very much- it's just a shame that it costs so much money, and the iPhone isn't really working here, because most people in Britain like more choice of networks.


Can you even use the Iphone on the UK network? I thought it just worked with that old US system? And yeah, at six times (or so?) the price of a Asus EEE I think it's clear the airbook isn't meant to actually be sold.

Still, lots of people don't want to ever use Vista so for them OSX which is only twice as bloated as XP instead of 10 times and will still allow them to use their Office and IE and in addition offer exciting "creative" stuff like making photo albums is probably worth the premium?

I think Vista is the main sales point for Mac's right now.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And I wonder with Intel's Atom series of processors, what OS will run on it? Doesn't seem like Vista is an obvious choice. Or, maybe they'll be available when Windows 7 is...

Although, I thought Intel was investing in Redhat & such a while back. Dell, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want to say thanks to Kassen for the tip off to the EEE PC.

I hope more people consider this route. I want a resurgence of hobbyist computing.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had Solidworks on the phone earlier today informing me that a Mac OS X version of SW's was imminent. I almost wet myself!! This is as cool as Apple announcing that they bought Emagic all those years back Very Happy This for the product design world, will be very big news indeed- and very welcome too!

Therefore now, my next PC will most definitely be a Mac! Sorry for the OT, PC folks Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, talking about iPhones in a topic about XP is a stretch.

Nevertheless, IMHO, the iPhone is fantastic. It works very well. Brilliant user interface. Some of the iPhone web aps are quite cool, lots of fun, some very useful. Hopefully, third party apps will be available soon.

You can even access your PC's music library with Winamp Remote. With this, you don't necessarily have to upload your music. Winamp Remote works with PS3 as well.

I agree that is would be much better to open it up to many other network providers. Fortunately for me, we have been using AT&T for many years so converting phones was effortless.


The AirBook, IMHO, is quite elegant. From the point of view of a person that moves around and frequently carries their computer with them it is marvelous. OSX is splendid for those uses too. Apple products have style. People are willing to pay for that. Laptops and phones are becoming a bit like watches or jewelry.

Virtually every aspect of the iPhone's design is artistic. It is an art object. I'm not sure if the Airbook is in that catagory.

Anyhow, I'm starting to understand why some people have such strong feelings for Apple products.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Well, talking about iPhones in a topic about XP is a stretch.


Not really... the eventual phasing out of XP led to a discussion of why people adopt Mac's and what forces affect that. Sounds entirely sensible to me.

Quote:
Nevertheless, IMHO, the iPhone is fantastic. It works very well.


Well, if you are getting a phone, a product that's mostly free when you get a subscription, and are instead paying more for it then some people pay for a car then it *better* work.

Sadly, of all phones I think the Iphone works *least*, I have, for example, never heard of a "bricked" Nokia.

Quote:
Brilliant user interface. Some of the iPhone web aps are quite cool, lots of fun, some very useful. Hopefully, third party apps will be available soon.

You can even access your PC's music library with Winamp Remote. With this, you don't necessarily have to upload your music. Winamp Remote works with PS3 as well.


Right, but my current phone, the last one I had and the one I have in reserve all have internet access as well.... and all of those are years old, virtually worthless and given to me for free. I would be greatly surprised if you couldn't access Winamp from those if you wanted, particularly as I think they will all run Java (including .jar files anybody could write on any platform, no need to ask mummy for permission). I don't see how that's special. Personally I never felt inclined to even try to access the internet from a phone.

Quote:
The AirBook, IMHO, is quite elegant.


Evidently there is no arguing about taste.

Quote:
From the point of view of a person that moves around and frequently carries their computer with them it is marvelous.


I don't know, depends on what you want to do with it. I think that for many the lack of a option to carry a second battery will be a issue... For music it would seem to me that having to use a single USB port for a soundcard and all controllers would be asking for trouble.

You could edit texts on it, or "prepare presentations", I'm getting the impression from marketing many people have a urgent need to continually "prepare presentations".

Quote:
OSX is splendid for those uses too.


I'm not sure why or how OSX would be more "splendid" for travelling then -say- XP or Ubuntu or.....

Quote:
Apple products have style. People are willing to pay for that. Laptops and phones are becoming a bit like watches or jewelry.


Yes, they are.... but let me repeat that the Mac-Air costs as much as 6 EEE's. This means that if you have a large-ish house you could put a EEE in every single room at the price of a Air. You can debate the looks of the EEE (I think it looks too much like a Mac or Nintendo myself) but clearly they've received some thought and are marketed at that sentiment as well, with the range of colours on offer and matching mice, etc.

To me Apple's design and "fashion accessory" status always looks a bit like what Nike's doing or that typical sort of "rapper jewellery". The brand logo always needs to be on it, front centre and if at all possible with a light behind it. To me this just reeks of bad taste. If you look at more expensive, maybe tailored, clothes those are always slightly understated, if they feature a brand label at all it will be very small. I like what IBM is doing in that regard much better. IBM is also a brand that pays a lot of attention to design (there are exhibitions of design featuring a thinkbook on permanent display) and clearly it has customers willing to pay for that but it's always nicely understated with maybe a small matted logo in a corner. Those "in the know" will immediately recognise one but they don't need to scream about their presence (which seems to state a sort of inner confidence).

Quote:
Anyhow, I'm starting to understand why some people have such strong feelings for Apple products.


Yeah, I'm noticing! I'm afraid I think it's still just a phone and the Air is still just a computer, kinda like that other "Air" was just a shoe.... I also still think the prime advantage of OSX is that it's not Vista.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I also still think the prime advantage of OSX is that it's not Vista.


I'm sorry? Run that past me again??

I'm stunned. Shocked

OSX is nothing like Vista- and vice-versa. OS X Leopard 'feels' like a professional OS. Vista does not. Vista feels like a toy.

Perhaps you should buy an iPhone Kassen, use it for a year, then tell us how shit it is?? Rolling Eyes


Kassen wrote:
A ultra-thin laptop with only a single USB port?


Well, to be honest, for portable use I would much prefer an Airbook as opposed to a Macbook. Carrying this thing about is quite a chore- especially from the weight of both battery and PSU. Ideally I'd like an Airbook and a Mac Pro- that would be ideal.

I think there is recession in the air (no pun intended) in the UK right now. This is possibly the biggest reason why these products aren't selling so well. Also, Microsoft in the UK is everywhere. Microsoft did a big deal with the British government and every single school, college and university across the land- apart from private (public) schools and colleges are full of PC's running Microsoft. Microsoft have also ousted Linux from the universities. I know this because my Father works at Sussex University, and I work at Wolverhampton University.

Right now, I think the prime example of OS X is that the latest computers run on Intel architecture, so now the universities and schools are looking at Mac because they can also run old copies of XP on them while the main core is UNIX and almost virus free.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Perhaps you should buy an iPhone Kassen, use it for a year, then tell us how shit it is?? Rolling Eyes


Obviously when it's shit one wouldn't use it for a year Rolling Eyes or was it the other way around

I think that the apple phone, or any phone actually with a a largish (touch) screen, could very well be suitable for doing some stuff on the internet, like mail and forum browsing. Some years a go I had a mobile thingie that could do internet on 128 x 128 pixrls or so ... no, that didn't really work Laughing

Eventually all computers will be phones, or was it the other way around.

Now that Clavia announced support for Vista I'm tempted to try it for myself ... just to see why it so miserably fails of course Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Kassen wrote:
I also still think the prime advantage of OSX is that it's not Vista.


I'm sorry? Run that past me again??

I'm stunned. Shocked

OSX is nothing like Vista- and vice-versa.


I think that was Kassen's point exactly. Those who like Mac, tend, in *general* to hate Windows. For nothing else, other than it is Windows, and doesn't operate like a Mac does.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes- as I was writing the message, I kind of started to agree with Kas after all (cor talk about fickle?- who? Me?? Rolling Eyes Laughing )

I don't hate windows, I just don't like the ethos behind it. I can understand why Jobs is so competitive, and it's nice that Linux is still chugging along in the background. I do like Linux too.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Kassen wrote:
I also still think the prime advantage of OSX is that it's not Vista.


I'm sorry? Run that past me again??


Sure; the prime reason people want OSX is that it's not Vista,
Quote:

I'm stunned. Shocked


It's not Vista. People like that since they don't like Vista. Few people liked XP (mainly because it takes a expert to maintain) they got used to it and it wasn't worth it to spend the time adapting from something they knew to something that's "intuitive". Vista is pushing a lot of those people over the edge. That's roughly what this topic is about before it degraded into explaining how much Apple's are like jewellery

Quote:
OSX is nothing like Vista- and vice-versa.


That's what I said. :¬)
(they do look the same though, even Jobs said so)

Quote:
OS X Leopard 'feels' like a professional OS. Vista does not. Vista feels like a toy.


I avoid using both. In "professional" applications I'd be happy with them, I'd love to be paid by the hour to stare at beach-balls. Ok, no I wouldn't but I think lots of people would like that.


Quote:
Perhaps you should buy an iPhone Kassen, use it for a year, then tell us how shit it is?? Rolling Eyes


I didn't say it was shit at all, I said it wasn't special and was too expensive. I'll tell you why I don't buy one and use it for a year; My phones cost me 0Euro exactly, I have a virtually never ending supply of them as all of my friends get one for free each year with their subscriptions. I turned down a phone with a large colour touch-screen because I didn't like the battery life. I spend about 40 or 50 Euro per year on pre-paid cards if that.

So, let's look at the Iphone now.

It costs 400$, after Apple's currency conversion (which is roughly a 1.5 Euro per dollar) that would be 600Euro, add to that a subscription at 60$ per month (asuming the cheapest one on offer on Apple's page) and we see it is a LOT more expensive, what do I get back for that...... erm, nothing that has any value to me. I don't have any computer I could use it with (my single XP computer is "frozen" in a working state, I don't install new stuff on it, least of all from Apple known for their Quicktime royally messing up Windows and being impossible to remove cleanly) so scratch their DRM infested Itunes, I'm not interested in mobile internet... so that leaves the brilliant features of (and I quote from Apple's page) "Tap a number to make a call. Listen to voicemail in any order with Visual Voicemail.". Well, I'm not interested in voicemail either (and tend to use my phone's address book). Whoopty do.

Sum total; it would cost me about a 600 + (12 * 60) - 50 == 1270 bucks more then I'm paying now to receive no benefits that interest me in the slightest to get a Iphone for a year.

Mind if I say "no, thanks"? (It's still over a 1000 without my arbitrary currency conversion)

Fortunately the whole point is entirely moot as the Iphone isn't sold in the Netherlands, maybe I should also move to the US for this year where they have IT&T? And get some Nike clothes to match it?

Also, do you really seriously believe the Iphone could compete in a climate where other phones with colour touch-screens are given away for free because people get something newer?

Quote:

Well, to be honest, for portable use I would much prefer an Airbook as opposed to a Macbook. Carrying this thing about is quite a chore- especially from the weight of both battery and PSU. Ideally I'd like an Airbook and a Mac Pro- that would be ideal.


Ah, ok, I can understand that... but isn't the EEE lighter then the Air? I thought it was. I don't mind a few KG myself if it gets me more ports, more features and more GHz.

Quote:
I think there is recession in the air (no pun intended) in the UK right now. This is possibly the biggest reason why these products aren't selling so well.


I thought that in general laptop sales were higher then ever?

Quote:
Right now, I think the prime example of OS X is that the latest computers run on Intel architecture, so now the universities and schools are looking at Mac because they can also run old copies of XP on them while the main core is UNIX and almost virus free.


Wait, do I understand correctly that a prime advantage of getting a Apple is that it will run XP?

This is going quite well (I think), I was saying for a long time that Unix on a x86 was a good idea but NOOOOO that wasn't "different" enough for Apple. Now it evidently is and once it's being faded out they suddenly realise XP really is indeed rather decent if you mind what you're doing.... Jobs saying OSX and Vista look alike didn't improve matters as far as my understanding is concerned much either. Oh, and one of my Mac using friends recently explained to me OSX was so great because it didn't have a terminal.

I'm now utterly lost as to what exactly is the "think" side and which one is the "think different" side. Just today I saw a advertisement photo for a small PC with a apple (the fruit) positioned on top of it.

I kinda feel like Winston at the end of 1984 where he concludes he has no idea what 2+2 is and wishes somebody would help him. We're at war with Estasia, we've always been at war with Estasia and Mac-fans will always disagree with you, even if you've been saying exactly what they are saying now for years. As I told before; I once had a debate with a Mac user who explained to me my own laptop was a Mac. It told him it wasn't, he set out to prove this to me.

V-un-V, I give up. Please tell me what it is you believe and I will agree, regardless of what it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Yes- as I was writing the message, I kind of started to agree with Kas after all (cor talk about fickle?- who? Me?? Rolling Eyes Laughing )


What's missing from my post above was that the repeated "it's not Vista" were said like "it's not your fault" in Good Will Hunting.

edit;
;¬)

PS, join the light side where it's all monumentally funny. Obviously I'm typing this in Firefox, on the other screen is MAME. In a minute I'll start ChucKing. I could do all three and never even see the OS, regardless of whether it's OSX, XP, Vista (I think....) or Linux.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Now that Clavia announced support for Vista I'm tempted to try it for myself ... just to see why it so miserably fails of course Very Happy


I recommend you turn your PC off before guests arrive.

Lots of people try it for a bit and when you ask about it they amusingly tend to move between you and the monitor, quickly put some application on top of it and mumble "oh, yes, that.... I was just trying it out for a bit,... I'll probably remove it tomorrow" like you accidentally discovered their collection of dirty pictures.

I have no idea why but that's exactly how they act.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The only thing that Apple make, that IMO is really, really terrible, are their range of Mice. The Apple mouse, like Mr Kipling, is truly crap imo Laughing

The new SDK for the iPhone is currently blowing my mind! Very Happy Cool Very Happy Cool Very Happy

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