a little controversy

paul e. · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject: a little controversy

is it possible to be too nice ? too stable..

i think we need a little controversy around here... some heated debate ? ...that's me anyway....

to shake things up from the regular 'listen to my music' threads and new gear reports...

something more philosophical ..

anyway i have always thought that a little friction/sparks can result in new ideas or perspective..

i dunno, i feel we are glad-handling each other too much.. makes for dull reading sometimes...

many memebers here are highly experienced/educated and have excellent communication skills.. maybe lying a little dormant right now

let's challenge each other here and there...

encouragement is good..positive .. but also critical thinking and self-analysis are also positive..

just my 2.2 cents

i suppose i should start a new thread to this effect...maybe...

paul e. · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject:

btw..

these threads illustrate what i mean

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-885.html&highlight=beth+anderson

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-1529.html&highlight=beth+anderson

and this one for sure

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-1430.html

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:20 pm Post subject:

Of course you are right, but then again such threads must be started and then taken into directions of theory, ideology and intent. The ltmm threads are of course ok, and they should be kept alive.. but not every little piece of music out there shuld be dissected and analyzed. A lot of music, a lot of great music in fact, are "mere" excersises in a vertain genre.. in the sense that the intent was to make just another tune .. a good one of course.. in the general vein of some genre. EBM and IDM can be examples of such.. but not always. True techno is to a large extent very in accord to established ways to compose techno. If you do not have this or that break.. then your tune is a disaster.. follow the rules etc etc. We should pretty much respect different approaches and everything goes. Well.. still certain demands to skill will of course be present.. but those can of course be different skills.
A large body of the so called electronic music these days will naturally be what many will call pop. Pop itself is not bad or evil, but the pop industry certainly is. It is a valid intent to aim for making "popular" music, but we all know that probably 90% of a successful pop tune is marketing and industry push.
Anyway, yes.. I see what you mean.. I would like to see more of those excursions.. and we probably will. Hehe.. I remember a post way back .. a member kinda flamed a few of us for using the term "piece" instead of "song".. hehe.. well. Shocked

...
Off topic: Bachus sent me some weeks ago a truly fantastic little piece.. and I would love to see some threads were we could follow the way Robert works creatively. And perhaps someone here should keep on doing those interviews? And.. I miss Beth.. she should hang out here more..
....however... the almighty Cyxeris is back ... we will have threads indeed..
Wink

paul e. · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:34 pm Post subject:

you are right..these threads will develop quite naturally

i just wondered if the general membership here still see those kind of 'excursions' [good word btw] as instructive and useful..

and i don;t want to suggest that gear news and ltmm threads are not valuable..they are...

but i do enjoy those forays into some of the deeper waters

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject:

I am pretty sure all of the regulars here would really want to see more of this. My own view is that we are currently seing a new convergence of "popular" and "proper music/art music".. and a lot of that is actually on display here right now. However.. a vital part of such a trend does rely on building a culture and explore a "common" identity. So.. I fully agree with your initial post.

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject:

Let me say a few words about that new trend.. and.. well.. I might be wrong..

Right after the second world war the noisy and rebellious avant garde music suddenly showed up in the academic circles. Then it went underground and hit hard in the late 50s. The effect on popular culture was huge. Now we are seeing that academic art music.. like electroacoustic music in general is pretty stagnart while the real development happened in the popular music sector.. and in the rock underground. Surprise.. noise is not that hard to listen too.. and it is in fact possible to combine tonal and atonal elements and make wonderful music. What was added I think was the reality of growing up with the avantgarde and totally accepting those weird noises without questioning the validity of it. An interesting ingredient these days is that all wild and outragous merged with traditional music.. not only pop but also old classical music and various breeds of ethnic stuff. Uh.. jazz did this even early on..
Musically.. there is a lot of really great things happening right now.. the only problem is that the music biz ( the major labels etc. ) is into some sort of evil psychotic feedback loop. No matter how much potential distribution we have using the net.. we end up with a major task in making a breakthough in the analog domain.

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject:

Correction re academic art music.. it is the ideological framework I see as restraining.. the institionalized music as such.. a lot of people are making good stuff .. and electroacoustic music is far from dead

paul e. · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:40 pm Post subject:

what makes music popular ?

Question

zynthetix · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:52 pm Post subject:

paul e. · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject:

[quote="zynthetix"]

seraph · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:13 am Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:08 am Post subject:

I've always been amazed the most really popular music is good. Good, by my personal standards, I should say. I don't mean pop music, but popular music - stuff that is liked and recognized by huge numbers of people to be good.

Not all good music is popular, but stuff that is really popular - Beatles, Mozart, Bach, Stones, Bill Joel, even Madona etc, is good. So, I'm always interested in hearing about new music that is very popular.

I have a friend from childhood. He can't play a note of music - has no chops or musical education at all, but he is a music lover and has great taste. When he says he likes something, I go find it and listen. When I was a kid, he turned me onto Charlie Parkie, Tenor Man Hawkins and John Coltrane.

There is something significant to popular, that's all I'm saying.

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:23 am Post subject:

Yes.. there really is something to popular music Very Happy

On the other hand.. popyular music does not ttranslate to pop.. the pop music industry is something else.. but many successful artists and acts often manage to deliver something interesting.. in some way or another.. despite whatever the industry thinks is cool or not.

zynthetix · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:05 am Post subject:

paul e. · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:35 am Post subject:

when is the next 'net concert ? i would love to see that...

naw, we need the analog, 3 dimensional, stuff too..maybe even moreso...the 'net is an adjunct to reality

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:28 am Post subject:

paul e. · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:14 am Post subject:

do you have a link to those events ? was it multi-casting ?

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:28 am Post subject:

This is one of them
http://www.neoscenes.net/projects/difusion1/schedule.html

and this is the other

http://www.neoscenes.net/projects/difusion2/schedule.html

I have tried to get John over here for some bonding and such.. hopefully he will drop by one day..

paul e. · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:41 pm Post subject:

hey ! cool Cool

mosc · Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject:

Yes, cool...

Hopefully, down the line we'll be able to set up some net concerts. We're getting the infastructure in place, we just need to do a lot of work to get the logistics resolved.

bachus · Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject: