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Tony Verderosa-The Techno Primer
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: Tony Verderosa-The Techno Primer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Techno Primer
The Techno Primer is a complete guide to the world of loop-based music styles. This book/CD pack contains an enhanced CD with techno music tracks in a variety of styles - as well as video clips and a demo version of the ACID(TM) XPress program by Sonic Foundry , a history of electronic music, and a detailed guide to techno styles. Also includes information on interactive music on the web, digital recording via the internet, understanding MIDI, the art of sound design, the DJ drummer concept and more. Features interviews with leading techno artists, producers and DJs (such as Jamie Myerson, Misstress Barbara, Code 911 and others), plus a comprehensive glossary of terms used in techno culture.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked
Perhaps I should get that one.. in order to learn something new.. I know nothing about techno

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K



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Shocked
Perhaps I should get that one.. in order to learn something new.. I know nothing about techno

I assume, from what I have heard of your music, that after reading that book you would still be an old timer knowledgeable about techno Cool
that's a different language that's hard to learn when you are over 40 alien salut geek crucified I'm sorry
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

afro

happy smoker

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Where is Norman ? Get Norman Vogel over here .... like right now!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wiccans and Witches Haunted by Myths
The word "Halloween" often conjures visions of witches wearing long black dresses and pointed hats. While that may be partially true--witches do often wear long black dresses--they also wear other colors. And it doesn't have to be dresses, either. Male witches often wear blue jeans and T-shirts. And a male witch is not a warlock, which is a Scottish term meaning "traitor" or "oathbreaker."


Witches don't ride on broomsticks across the moon each Oct. 31. Nor do all of them have black cats as pets, for familiars. The many myths about witches often haunt those who practice witchcraft or Wicca. That's one reason Norman Vogel, an ordained Wiccan minister, created a Web site to explain the differences and the beliefs of the two religions.

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

K wrote:

that's a different language that's hard to learn when you are over 40


Erhem, if your young enough to think 40 is old then you must have still been wearing disposable nappies when Techno started.

Ian (a techno fan for at least two decades)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
if your young enough to think 40 is old then you must have still been wearing disposable nappies when Techno started.

what do we have here Question a little controversy Question hehe....I just meant that if you have not been a technoid kid it's hard to become one when retirement looms on the horizon Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Retirement my ass! It is DEATH which looms in the horizon! Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm.. yes.. I confess I am too old etc etc.
I still remember the days when sex would not kill ya and mdma was a dull substitute for d-lysergic acid diethylamide.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Hmm.. yes.. I confess I am too old etc etc.
I still remember the days when sex would not kill ya and mdma was a dull substitute for d-lysergic acid diethylamide.


oh boy hehehe...good one... Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

..techno may only be different from 'elektro' in 1 or maybe 2 small ways... maybe the use of sampling ?.. and maybe the bpm's

same thing otherwise, no ?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

techno, like all genres, has alot of pretenders in it clouding up the genre... esp with all the access to new gear now

i think some of the best electronic music is made from having to work really really hard to make a sound or programme a special effect etc..

butnow, this struggle to operate unweildy and complicated gear is gone and therefore some of the music is shallow and lacks the depth you get when you pour alot of energy/thought into a track


on the other hand, the best electronic music can come from immediate, spontanoues action , like Reason and Live allows....

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Retirement my ass! It is DEATH which looms in the horizon! Shocked

You Nasty Boy Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Erhem, if your young enough to think 40 is old then you must have still been wearing disposable nappies when Techno started.

40's not old...some people aren't even ripe by then.

paul aka sudden wrote:
techno may only be different from 'elektro' in 1 or maybe 2 small ways... maybe the use of sampling ?.. and maybe the bpm's

what the hell is "techno"? I hate that word as a description for electronic music, I've always associated it with the dance stuff (hence correlating the extreme disliking). Maybe I'm wrong here?

(Disclaimer: Mind you, when I say "dance stuff", I'm referring to "some of the music is shallow and lacks the depth you get when you pour alot of energy/thought into a track "....you know, the stuff that sounds like someone pressed play on a beat machine looping a few measures more than a song. This is not to say music written to be danced to is all bad...)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

techno is just 'electronic music' but represents the surge of slightly tweaked 70's electronic music that flourished in the 90's mainly due to the the big studios and other's getting rid of their roland tr 808 drum machines due to the death of synth pop like madonna or michael jackson

sothere was a sudden avaialbilty of funkydrum machines at way undervalued prices

also the tb303 and tr909 all fall into this 'abandoned in the late 80's' category

so electornic music was 'rediscovered' many people once they got their hands on this kind of gear

but it is basically exactly the same as 70's electronic stuff
with a few new twists

drum and bass is perhaps the latest genre and does not really have a precedent set in the 70's

now 'techno' is a bad word and sadly now is defined as a certain bpm and a certain feel so as to distinguish it from 'house' or trance' etc..and is genrally cheesey

bt it is all really 'techno'..,or all 'elektro' if you want

journalists however love categories and terms... blame them for all this silly sub sub genrefication

highly recommended lisyenoing for that early 90's electronic sound

Black Dog - Bytes

or Autechre - Amber [before they went all clicky]


both on Warp

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well.. drumNbass wise.. CAN and groups like that.. even Göttsching with the Ashra sans tempel material.. ( after Blackoputs though ).. are some important figures.... you know.. some of the Czukay solo material is pretty much dNb with a twist.. before dNb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

critical to drum and bass is sampling the 70's funk drum breaks like 'amen brother' and chopping up and re-ordering the waveform...

that doesn;t sound like what those guys were doing..

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well.. those guys were actually playing the good shit live..
but Holger is of course known for his insanely cool edits.. check out his lp Movies

But yes.. you are right.. back then stuff like that was actually played and humans were involved.. but hey we are back to that these days eh?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

another intersting twist on 'techno' from 'elektro' has sadly been lostover the years

and that is that techno's sound comes as almost a protest about the coming 'brave new world' people accurately and inaccurately predicted for the new millenium

and a protest against urban decay [i.e detroit techno]

so techno used old abandoned , broken synths to create music that stood technology on it's head by 'misusing' the roland tb 303 filters to mae them scream

laughably, these devices [tr 808, 909 tb 303, sh 101]] etc where conceived as eventual replacements for real musicians..

when this halcyon dream faded in the late 80's and grunge rock threw the studios and industry back to a psuedo psychedlic era, people in the 'underground' began to use this gear not as replacements for real instruments but as deconstruciton tools of technology itself and of a technological world view, bt using then in a new context...

so, this social context is also what makes tehcno and elektro slightly different

but hey, like jazz which has a million sub-genres and rock as well, at the bottom line it is all just jazz and all just rock and roll

so all of this is just 'electronic music' whichever term suits you best be it 'techno ' or 'elektro'

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well.. the way I see it techno quite early on evolved into a very strict musical language.. there are of course a multitude of examples of acts breaking out if the mold.. but in essence techno.. and.. trance etc all have very very strict "rules". There are several online tutorials.. and like those articles in the UK newbie mags.. they all focus on these "rules". There is of course nothing wrong with this.. it is just the way it is. I am pretty sure it is possible to make innovative polka too.

But yes.. I see your point.. and yes.. a "revolution" happened when the low end Roland gear hit the market.. and another revolution happened when the same gear was sold secondhand for almost nothing. Frankly, some of that gear was never that good anyway. What many of those devices did have was sync and layering.. and then techno happened.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mmhh.. not really

the low end roland gear ruined techno..techno happened way before those cheesey roland mc 303 grooveboxes came out.

and those rules you refer to came from the dj's later on..to make it easier to mix...[dj's always need help to make them look good,hehe]

but the people who were producing the music in the late 80's early 90's were not following any of these rules yet

the stuff you are reading is from journalists who don;t really understand what they are talking about...

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No.. dunno about those groove boxes. I was thinking about the MC202, the early TR models, the Juno, the JX3P etc etc. You know.. the budget.. low end Roland gear..
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh i think i get it... i think i now understand the disdain and defensiveness and frankly snobiness toward new electronic music forms

techno = low end.. ?

mhh..

intersting

and i supose 'electro' distinguisgshes itself as being 'hi end'..more sophisticated..

kind of like 'we used to have to walk 10 miles in the snow in barefeet to school in the old days'

or 'we used to have to use 5 patch chords just to geta sine tone'

i hope as i get older i do not become cycnical and isolated from the music of the youth and develop the posture of the 'good old days' and think 'our music was more real'

in my day son, electronic music was real electronic music..





i Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

paul aka sudden wrote:
oh i think i get it... i think i now understand the disdain and defensiveness and frankly snobiness toward new electronic music forms

techno = low end.. ?


I haven´t heard that one before.

paul aka sudden wrote:
and i supose 'electro' distinguisgshes itself as being 'hi end'..more sophisticated..

Depends on what you mean by electro. I dont think there is much difference. Modern german electro is done using pretty much the same gear you can make "hausfrau polka" with.

The low end Roland stuff was marketed way back as.. well.. you can check out original ads on the net.. Clearly a lot of this was not in any way better sounding or worse sounding than the old cult onbjects.. but the gear had a weird mix of new features and bugs which kinda sent new users in new directions. Many of these devices had very simple sequencers.. and they could easily be synced. A lot of the high end stuff.. as in the "new" high end stuff could not be synced easily.
Well.. look at the MC 202.. a sequencer with a built in synth.. one extra sequencer voice you could use for controlling any CV/gate synth.. and even one chan nel for accent.. very useful. THis package could be compared with a modular setup costing 50 times more. The MC202 did miss some very vital features most geeks considers standard.. and this meant that the MC202 did not quite fit in.. it needed a new kind of user... and it did find an audience.. after a year or two. This product did of course showcase the need for a visual programming of long series of events. I did of course write notation back then.. and what I did was translate the standard notation into steps for the MC202. Not many wanted to do that back then so a lot of the MC202s gathered dust in some shoebox or closet. What mainly happened at that time was that the hands on interfaces disapperead.. the prices fell.. and a lot of the new gear did not quite fit the current market. Instead it ended up in the hands of the hiphop crowd, the dubheads, disco kids and you name it.
Hmm.. yeah.. another thing happened back then too.. the organs disapperead.. the electric pianos disappered.. and there was a new market .. musicians wanted a flat long thingie with keys on it.. a lot of presets .. and a low price.

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