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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
phase question and input of constant
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peterk



Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:39 am    Post subject: phase question and input of constant Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi all Very Happy
first time im here. and im very happy to find this forum. some months ago i buy a modular g2 engine. sounds very good.
i make alot of experiments with electronic music before i buy this expander. for example with csound! csound is very free, you can make everything you can think of.
now i want to make a patch a little bit like in csound. is there any possibility to use constant others than 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5 ...
i want to multiply the frequenz of an oscilator with 0.56. the second oscilator frequenz should be multiplied with 0.92 third with 1.19 etc...
im a real newbee here so i dont find a possibilitie to use other conastanz than 0, 0.5 etc Rolling Eyes
i also want to use sine waves with different phases. one sinewave with phase 0 degree one with 36 degree one with 2*36 degree etc... think there is no possibility to do so, or?

hope you understand my questions. im not a nativ speaker, so my english is miserable. Embarassed im very sorry about this

greetings peter
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20622
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 150
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Peter,

welcome, I'll let the moving emoticon show to someone else, I really can't do that.

To get better resolution on constants you can use two constants that you mix together. You can use the chain input of a mixer for the coarse control and set another input to about 1% or something and use the constant connected to that input as the fine control - but you will have to do some calculations then. Experiment with the various LIN / EXP settings to see what works best for you.

To use phase offsets on oscillators you can use the OscPM module (only sine or triangle output), or alternatively for low frequencies use the LFO shape modules. You'll also want to use the sync input then to get a defined starting point.

Jan.
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Peter to electro-music.com.

I've had the same question. I don't know the answer. Maybe someone else will know.
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peterk



Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thnx for the very quickly answer blue hell. will test your solution and give you a reply if its run or not Laughing
also thnx to you mosc for the very nice hello Very Happy

greetings peter

i will put two patchs in the folder where i made a little experimental bell like instrument. its a little instruments based on rissets bell instrument. cant make it perfect on the nordlead. maybe someone else can make it better. than give me a reply...
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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G2 patch files: 608

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for jumping in on this one but I am a bit of a fan of bell tones. I googled "Risset bell" and came up with a CSound orc file, which I have G2ised. I may have something wrong as the tone, although nice enough in the top couple of octaves; sounds like over modulated FM in the lower registers. Some of the frequency ratio/decay time/max levels are not exact but I can't imagine it making that much difference. Maybe some frequency scaling is missing from the CSound orc.
I read a reference to Risset's other work at Bell labs in the 60's, interesting stuff. Anyone know of a good web resource with more details?
I don't know if the de-tuning technique I used on partial 2 and 4 works, in Csound, they would be adding a constant 1 or 1.7 Hz. The de-tuning and decay rates are scaled to the Key morph group.
The OscC was used to allow the sync to key trigger, as with FM, you tend to get key clicks otherwise.

Nice photo BTW mosc.


RissetBell.pch2
 Description:
bell patch based on Risset's work at Bell Labs

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 Filename:  RissetBell.pch2
 Filesize:  3.26 KB
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:

Nice photo BTW mosc.

you have not seen his previous avatars, I guess Exclamation Shocked

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peterk



Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi g2ian,
very nice stuff. i also have programmed rissets bell tones in csound. for me its much easier to creat this stuff with csound. but to play it in realtime nordlead is my favorit Smile
seems to be we have the same sources. bell tone instrument from risset with 11 partials and partial 2 have frq*0.56+1 partial 4 frq*0.92+1.7... i have computer music. synthesis. composition. and performance from charles dodge and thomas a. jerse.. very good book.
theres an oscillator with special function talbe used as an envelope generator. how do you solve this problem?

greetings peter
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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G2 patch files: 608

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

peterk wrote:

theres an oscillator with special function talbe used as an envelope generator. how do you solve this problem?


Hi Peter

The CSound examples I have seen, use an exponential decay FTable, this is the default curve of the G2 decay envelopes. I set the decay times based on (approx) 10 Seconds for longest decay, other decay times set to closest relative decay time. Then I assigned a morph to go from max to 1/10th, tracking the keyboard (not part of original orc, but decay normally is relative to pitch).
I have played a little with CSound over the years; I admire people who have the patience to create music with it. It is very powerful but also very awkward to use.
Do you know how Mr Risset arrived at this specific set of parameters?
Did he just analyse a real bell?
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peterk



Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi g2ian,
i dont know how risset arrived at this specific set of parameters, sorry.. but i think he has alot of helper which makes alot of resynthese and analyse and so he get this parameters.
i havent analysed a real bell Crying or Very sad

greetings peter
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