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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
The CGS Sub Oscillator...You need it
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: The CGS Sub Oscillator...You need it Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No questions here...

Only had 20 minutes to tinker with it after completion last night. This is a GREAT module, surprised I have not seen more folks building it. I built it according to the diagram on the site, and will probably experiment with some of the other divisions in the future.

As Ken says, mixing and audio and LFO wave can create some fantastic rythmic oddities, not to mention the beef from 2 audio waves. TONS of variability from careful mixing of the divided tones.

How come EVERY time I build a new CGS module I immediately want a second one? EVERY TIME.
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would be CGS01? He has a couple other dividers...

C
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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've assembeled this board, and tested it. But I haven't started using it, it's not behind a panel yet.

I'm having some difficulty designing a panel layout. Theres just so many different options. At first I thought I'd bring each division out to it's own jack-- but that would require so many buffers, jacks, and panel space.

As I have my panel now, I've grouped the divisions into 3 sub-mixes: divider channel 1, divider channel 2, and the multiplier channel.

But there's still all that business with the pre-stage multiplier that I'm not sure exactly how I should represent on the front panel. I'd like to leave the option of switching between various circuit paths, but it's complicated stuff for me.

I'm curious to know, did you use one of Ken Stones examples exactly, or did you change anything?
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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeh I just followed the wiring diagram exactly, not until I stared at it for hours trying to figure out if I was doing it right. There are tons of options, all of which will be simple to mod from the "standard" setup.

I did my panel in three vertical columns, A and dividers at left, B in the center and A/B to the right. Inputs below the A column, prescaler at the bottom of B, and outs beside it beneath A/B.

The prescaler was the most confusing part I think, I used a 2 pole 6 position switch set to 5 positions. I would have got it done faster if the schematic was whole rather than in bits. But that would be the beauty of Ken Stone, giving those smarter than I the option to really get crazy.
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's in my backlog. I've got all the PCB and all the parts for the 8 knob configuration shown on Ken's site, but I'm having second thoughts. Has anyone built the original layout and found it indispensable?
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The Alison Project



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: The CGS Sub Oscillator...You need it Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built this for a friend and was very sad when it left my house... It's been added to my NEED to build list.

numbernone wrote:

How come EVERY time I build a new CGS module I immediately want a second one? EVERY TIME.


I agree, I went way overboard with CGS modules... But sometimes 4 is better than 2.

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numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Those 20 minutes have indicated that YES it will be indispensible. After the weekend I will be able to better confirm it.

I'm a major droner, so this really expands the pallette. Cant wait to try it out with the skew on the XR VCOs. VC of the individual dividers would make my head explode.
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm, you are making me reconsider even though I'd have to place a special order to get the rotary switch. What are some cool things to do where you would absolutely have to have access to the multipliers and both channels dividers simultaneously? I thought the A channel dividers and A+B multipliers would be enough for me, but I'll never know how I'm going to be using the thing until it's already built.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:
It's in my backlog. I've got all the PCB and all the parts for the 8 knob configuration shown on Ken's site, but I'm having second thoughts. Has anyone built the original layout and found it indispensable?


I have a 16 knob version and the 8 knob version.
panel pic -
http://www.sdiy.org/pinky/box/picture000.jpg


I'd say build both, they can be used in different ways.
The 8 knob vers. is easier to use and get good sounds quickly.
The 16 is a module you can spend hours hovering over...it can be quite intriguing - Ken's description - "harmonic sequencer" is spot on.
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
neandrewthal wrote:
It's in my backlog. I've got all the PCB and all the parts for the 8 knob configuration shown on Ken's site, but I'm having second thoughts. Has anyone built the original layout and found it indispensable?


I have a 16 knob version and the 8 knob version.
panel pic -
http://www.sdiy.org/pinky/box/picture000.jpg


I'd say build both, they can be used in different ways.
The 8 knob vers. is easier to use and get good sounds quickly.
The 16 is a module you can spend hours hovering over...it can be quite intriguing - Ken's description - "harmonic sequencer" is spot on.


Nice! Thanks. Can you tell me a bit more about it? How did you get all the way down to /64? Running the two channels in series? I can't see what the knobs are in the second row.

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here's my usual ghetto dymo panel:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

(NB: ADB = A divided by B)

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andrewF



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:


Nice! Thanks. Can you tell me a bit more about it? How did you get all the way down to /64? Running the two channels in series? I can't see what the knobs are in the second row.

Embarassed neither can I!
had a look thru my (ahem) files for the original panel diagram but haven't found it ... yet.
that synth is in storage, hasn't been used for a few years and i can't remember how I managed to get 16 knobs.

I'll have some more verdehlo and see if the neurons spark
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lanxe



Joined: Feb 24, 2005
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Location: Columbus, OH - Now Carson City NV

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i am surprised that there arent more people talking about the CGS stuff..... a few months ago i was looking around for opinions before i started to build some of his stuff and found very little on the DIY side (unlike MFOS, which everybody loves including me Very Happy )

but i did end up building a few things.......the programmer/sequencer is amazing and fairly easy to build (especially when compared to the mfos sequencer panel wiring rats nest i ended up with). i cant say enough good things about that sequencer.....and i see there are a couple of commercially available versions for lots of $$$$.

the steiner vcf is nice and easy and the vca's are cool too.

Ryan
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Ilanode



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lanxe wrote:
i am surprised that there arent more people talking about the CGS stuff.....

Can't understand that either since Ken is definately designing some of the most outstanding circuits. (Well, may be that's why!?) However, not even on the CGS-Yahoo-Group you'll find much info on stuff like his Modulo Magic.
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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ilanode wrote:
lanxe wrote:
i am surprised that there arent more people talking about the CGS stuff.....

Can't understand that either since Ken is definately designing some of the most outstanding circuits. (Well, may be that's why!?) However, not even on the CGS-Yahoo-Group you'll find much info on stuff like his Modulo Magic.


I've built a bunch of Ken's circuits. But, I have to admit, I've spent a whole lot of time thinking about how I will use and adapt some of these things to do what I want. This is very time consuming for me--but I enjoy it.

For one thing, many of the CGS PCBs don't have a front panel example to refer to. This makes these rather esoteric circuits only that much harder to visualize. I first started out assembling MFOS stuff, probably because Ray has made his stuff very accessible to people who may not even have any building experience (this was the case for me). Even though I don't use Ray's Panel examples, it definitely helps me to immediately understand what the circuit will do. Besides that, Ray's circuits are generally more "regular" or "standard" modules, as found in your average monosynth.
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numbernone



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think MFOS is the best jumping off point for most folks. Ray's documentation cant be beat. I know I would have been in the dark for ages if not for his lovely diagrams. That said, the MFOS modules form a good basic system, CGS stuff however ramps it up several notches.

I also built the sequencer programmer a few months back, and again I am planning a second. Yes I also built the MFOS sequencer, LOTS OF WIRES!!!! Doing one for friend now and dragging my ass because of it.

I love the generally compact size of the CGS boards. I build panels with the PCBs parrellel to the faceplate with as little room necessary between the two. I wish I had the luxury of big MOTM style brackets and giant pots and jacks, but I take my system out to gig frequently and that just aint happening with the Cadillac style.

Much Love to Ken, finishing my first synthacon VCF and second utility LFO tonite!!!
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Ilanode



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ericcoleridge wrote:
I've built a bunch of Ken's circuits. But, I have to admit, I've spent a whole lot of time thinking about how I will use and adapt some of these things to do what I want. This is very time consuming for me--but I enjoy it.

That's true for me as well. The sub-Osc. is on my mind for a long time but me as an eternal newbie can't easily figure out how to bring all pots and jacks to the front panel. It's even worth with the Infinite Melody and the Modulo. Sad
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree, there is too little discussion of Ken's modules. I joined the yahoo group, but didn't find it very useful (not much of a sense of community).
We really should have a Ken Stone subforum here (mods, are you reading this? Wink ). I think loads of people have built his circuits, and this forum is sp great for discussing things like alternative panel layouts, module applications, etc - besides the building and troubleshooting questions.


C
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ken has nice stuff, but not all the wirings are documentated good enough.
He is one of the very nice guys supplying modular stuff.


Coriolis wrote:
We really should have a Ken Stone subforum here (mods, are you reading this? Wink ).
C

might be useful, yes.
1 vote more for that


the CGs Yahoo group is ok.
It's the Place were Ken answers things.
I prefer the Forums. it is easyer to read and follow
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lanxe



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, you have to think a bit more before you buy parts....but i feel it makes me look into the makings a bit more than kit style stuff.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
(mods, are you reading this? Wink ).


Yup, we have forms for this somewhere ... I'm sure Laughing

I suggest you start a new topic in DIY explaining why we really do need the KS subforum, then that topic could be the first one in the new subforum, later on ... unless of course someone has a good idea on why it would be a bad idea to have a KS sub thingie ...

Erm, Im just being lazy here of course Laughing anyway remind me after the weekend.

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lanxe



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Coriolis wrote:
(mods, are you reading this? Wink ).


Yup, we have forms for this somewhere ... I'm sure Laughing

I suggest you start a new topic in DIY explaining why we really do need the KS subforum, then that topic could be the first one in the new subforum, later on ... unless of course someone has a good idea on why it would be a bad idea to have a KS sub thingie ...

Erm, Im just being lazy here of course Laughing anyway remind me after the weekend.



Done! Wink
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oldmanfury



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Haven't built the sub osc. - maybe I'll move it up on my to-do list But I'll vouch for the other dozen CGS boards I've built. Some truly unique gems are the Wave Multiplier, and the Bi-N-Tic. The indispensable category includes the Slope Detector (I stuck 2 in a 2U Frac-rack panel), and the Tube VCA (also doubled up, but in a 3U panel).

-gerald
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oldmanfury



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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Forgot to ask - how does it compare to a Blacet Binary Zone? Similar module, or very different?
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otherunicorn



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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ilanode wrote:
However, not even on the CGS-Yahoo-Group you'll find much info on stuff like his Modulo Magic.


That would be because not many people have tried the Modulo Magic. I can't understand it myself - it's a great little module that can be used with both CV and audio.

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