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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Musical Interfaces
Is it possible to control any Synth's keyboard via MIDI ?
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jjj



Joined: Feb 28, 2008
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Location: Australia
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Is it possible to control any Synth's keyboard via MIDI ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is it possible to control any Synth's keyboard via MIDI ?

If this is possible, manufacturers could create a couple plug-in keyboards, such as a Janko and Wicki/Hayden pattern. The latter then could be mapped to suit concertina and (button) CBA/ BCA accordion or any other configuration.
The keyboard could look like a PC Kbd and could be used with any MIDI Synth. At the moment only that lousy-sounding Chromatone Janko Synth is available. It's far too expensive. For that money I can buy a Yamaha Tyros 2 and adapt the awkward zebra piano Kbd to whatever layout I prefer.
The problem is that nobody thought of manufacturing the above type of adaptable Kbds... and it's a waste of time to hand-make them.
Incidentally, the Roland V-Accordions have got mappable Keyboards for CBA/BCA , but not for Janko or Wicki/Hayden.
These things were all impossible before the advent of computer music.
The very fact that a number of innovative Kbd layouts sprung up is, because it's about time to benefit from computer-age advantages.

In the concertina forum I argued around with a Russian born concertina freak ...until he threatened to return to Russia Laughing , who insists that PC music is bad for our health! Read more about it, here:
http://www.concertina.net/forums/forums.html...=7328&start=100
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Is it possible to control any Synth's keyboard via MIDI Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jjj wrote:
Is it possible to control any Synth's keyboard via MIDI ?


No, and you don't really control the synth's keyboard over MIDI but you control the synth itself over MIDI.

MIDI has some limitations as well, in that it is not too fast.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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MusicScienceGuy



Joined: Jun 22, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not a midi expert, but it should be possible to have a very, very cheap pc (think ms-DOS) take the midi-out signal from the synth (into the PC), do a simple conversion of the note values to the one desired, and send the signal back from the PC to the midi-in of the synth, and have it pay the desired note. This would be pretty fast.

The conversion program could read from several conversion tables. by selecting between them, the desired keyboard layout setup would be chosen.

Calling all Midi-experts - is there a best way to do this? Can it be set up as a batch program or something simple for those that need it simple to use?

Can Chuck do this easily?

Ken.
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jjj



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes Ken, that's what I was thinking, too. Because, if the PC can play the MIDI Kbd then it should do that as well. I guess it's just a matter of programming it accordingly. I mean, now the PC Kbd is able to play the MIDI Synth; although with considerable limitations. So, it's only a matter amending and extending its application. It s latency could be decreased with ASIO.
I reckon its true limitations are rather to get a manufacturer to make modular button keypads. For instance, I would like to buy a PC- type of Keyboard with three rows; i.e. 25 button in the middle row and 24 in the upper and lower row... suitable for a Janko layout.

I'm all for progress and every good idea is a step in that direction! To just say..."it has not be done or it still doesn't exist" is stay put.
Stalin said: "From nothing... comes nothing!" What a 'wise' leader he must have been. Glad he's gone to lead in hell! Sad
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MusicScienceGuy



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have I got a deal for you (and anyone else that is listening in).

My keyboard conversion is coming along - should be able to "print" (create) a pair of prototype keys this weekend, and I soon will have more time free.
If you can get ahold of any second hand M-Audio Keyboard (I think they all have the same keys - will confirm) I will arrange you a special deal in convering it to a Janko and/or jammer (Thummer) layout.

The catch: I need enough interest to justify going to production, so I need much help (I don't have Jim Plamondon's skills) in publicizing this new keyboard conversion option. Can you help?

If I have a market, I can have actual conversion keys molded and shipping in four weeks.

Ken.
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jjj



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess, for that you would need to give me more details and I then can go around to various fora and blow the horn...
Of course I'll let you the links in which I "dust around"...
I hope that'll make you happy and lucky... Smile
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MusicScienceGuy



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

of course I'll have better details -
1. one could replace just the keys and make a 3-row janko.
2. one can get much more fancy. by facing the keys to each other.
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jjj



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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
...in publicizing this new keyboard conversion option. Can you help?

No problem! All you need to give me are the actual details of:

i) The link with how to use instructions of your kit and shipping costs.

ii) What your kit contains and its price.

iii) Which models of Synths are suitable for conversion with your kit and the Synth manufacturer's link or your Synth wholesale pricing.
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MusicScienceGuy



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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Those facts are coming coming up.

I'm almost at the point where the design is done, and I can ask for quotations to make the keys. once that is done, I will know the price to make 1000 (12 kits), 5,000 (~60 kits), 20,000 (120 kits) etc. keys. from that I can start to make a guess at the price to charge. It's complicated because there are startup costs to cover, and I have *no* idea how many I will be selling. I also have a limited budget, so I can't just make a lot. and may have to pre-sell.
However, I should be able to make a stab at pricing.

I don't know yet what keyboards the replacement keys will fit - I have to ask the manufacturer. I hope, but do not know yet, that all M-Audio keyboards have the same keys - cross your fingers for luck.

Ken
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jjj



Joined: Feb 28, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, not easy... Not sure about luck; do prayers help? All Chileans are good at the latter. Almost every name, street and shop has a holy name, such as "Santa, San Salvador, Jesu Christo, San Expedito, San Rafael, San Charbel", etc. etc. and they have to put up with misery! It' won't work!
Thus, may I suggest you forget all about crystal balls and settle for down-to-Earth divine logic, such as sound reasoning, instead? Wink

So, as soon you have the details on hand I can start spreading the news to musically interested groups and fora.
For as long we don't have concrete facts & data we only confuse them and they might lose interest later on, when we have our act together.
Best is to say: "Look here... what's new and available right now!".
You'll net buyers still waiting for the price of Chromatone to come down ...and the Thummer release coming up.
That's why you should aim at covering the Janko and Wicki layout. I think you did, didn't you?
Better still, if it's mechanically feasible, is to create an adapter kit, mountable onto any Synth. That would allow Roland and Tyros2 owners to adapt their beloved Synth. Many people are not keen on parting with their trusty Synth, believe me.
Using glue-gun glue, allows to even remove the adapter.

The best mechanical solution of them all would be to create a not glued on, but hinged adapter!
Pathetic fact: Friends told me, "I never run out of good ideas Idea " ...and then wonder why I miss out every time ! Crying or Very sad
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