electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Faux Pas Quartet and friends Music From Last Thursday
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
ondes martenot
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 7 of 10 [238 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next
Author Message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And here's the video (YouTube) of the first test... my Trill Ring controller... as seen in the pictures just above (previous page). Pretty bad video but I had to hold the camera/phone while I played... but gives a taste of the pulley loop working. No breath or trill keys used here... just testing the ring/pulleys controlling direct analog pitch.

http://youtu.be/Wlh4ICxP4kY
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8932
Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Since howard posted the link about Bebot, this is an Ondes Martenot clone for the iPad...

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/petites-ondes/id492217271?mt=8

_________________
ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very minute detail I noticed tonight. With the ring on a Martenot controller, it's important to attach the wire/line to 2 opposing sides of the ring, instead of just fastening to the bottom.

The 2nd way you have to travel or roll just a little bit before it actually pulls either way again, making vibrato a lot harder to do smoothly.

I realized this and got online to look at the Therevox and the Ondes Martenot and indeed they fasten on 2 sides. Maybe other's won't run into that but it was a helpful little discovery for me. The project is closer... lots of testing new components today and yesterday on it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have often wondered if using a theremin in conjuction with a printed keybaord and Martenot style holes/bumps would be better than the ring controller.

Last night I got a doepfer theremin in the mail and tested this out. I can see why the ring/wire was developed. The range and inconsistency of a theremin in general makes it just not such a good approach. But it was fun to try.

I will say, playing the theremin while resting my hand or finger on any smooth surface profided a much more stable pitch experience than the normal, cooler looking theremin approach.

But still... the ring controller or the ribbon does better for normal musical phrasing than the theremin, unless you really do want that jittery theremin sytle. Fun to play though and great for sound effects of course.

Maybe a better way to do this kind of thing (with a keyboard reference) would be to use a Audio Cube... they use very fast/low latency infra red. I still prefer CV resolution but those cubes really scan fast aparently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Though the Theremin is difficult to play, it has an amazing effect on audiences. Also, if you play it enough, it really can get you into the zone because concentration eventually becomes a transcendental experience. After a few years, the Theremin will grow on you. Laughing

Ohm... Theremin Ohm... Theremin Russian Roulette

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Love the images, Mosc! You did maybe talk me into still using a Theremin.

Plus, my dad is a retired dentist so I could probably get some good rates on a Transcendental insurance plan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just recently added another physical mod to my Eowave Ribbon... I added physical half pearl bumps... sort of like the note references on the Martenot.

The pearls are really nice. You can use them for note reference but also with a slight angle change you can ignore them and just slide around easily up and down the ribbon.

And as an unexpected bonus, the pearls also make a nice reference to feel exactly where the center of the ribbon is along the length. That makes it possible to play with out even looking at it and easier in general even if you do.

I got these self adhesive half pearls at the craft/hobby store Michael's and they are cheap and so far not falling off.

Still working on the ring controller, but this set up plays so well with the pearls that I'm starting to think the bumps/note references may be the better thing to borrow from the Martenot design over the ring.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dana Countryman



Joined: Feb 03, 2009
Posts: 41
Location: Planet Fred

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: The real Ondes Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Adrian Freed wrote:

Also on later models the keyboard can be moved side to side resulting in a beautiful tightly controllable vibrato.

There is no MIDI or synth controller available to my knowledge that captures all these aspects of the Ondes Martenot in a single device.


Well, hang on -- 'cause it's a-coming! I'm working on just that.

-dana
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The real Ondes Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Adrian Freed wrote:

Also on later models the keyboard can be moved side to side resulting in a beautiful tightly controllable vibrato.

There is no MIDI or synth controller available to my knowledge that captures all these aspects of the Ondes Martenot in a single device.


Well, to set the record straight, there is a product call the MidiBoard made by Kurzweil way back in the 1980s that was make in limited production. I've got one of them. On the MidiBoard, you could move the keys slightly from side to side and that could be used for vibrato, or more uniquely, it could be used to repeatedly trigger the notes giving the effect of strumming.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: The real Ondes Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Adrian Freed wrote:

Also on later models the keyboard can be moved side to side resulting in a beautiful tightly controllable vibrato.

There is no MIDI or synth controller available to my knowledge that captures all these aspects of the Ondes Martenot in a single device.


Well, to set the record straight, there is a product call the MidiBoard made by Kurzweil way back in the 1980s that was make in limited production. I've got one of them. On the MidiBoard, you could move the keys slightly from side to side and that could be used for vibrato, or more uniquely, it could be used to repeatedly trigger the notes giving the effect of strumming.


Very cool. I'd like to see and hear that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tojpeters



Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Posts: 22
Location: cali (far north)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: finger vibrato Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm pretty sure the Yamaha home organs from the 80's also had side-to-side key control. For vibrato I think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome tojpeters
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good to have you here, tojpeters!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know the size of the keys, and the distance between note finger guides on the original Martenot?

Is it exactly 1/2 key size?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tojpeters



Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Posts: 22
Location: cali (far north)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the welcome. I have a lot of arcane tube/organ knowledge to share.... I have a 25 or so module analog synth I built myself, mostly serge/cgs and mfos. my rack is integrated into a hammond L100, i have added a resistor divider network to the lower manual to control the synth. I can use the tonewheel output as another tone source. I have a rhodes piano and a B3, the modular is the final leg in my holy trinity of keyboards. I plan on building quite a large modular. I'm on this thread as I want to build a similar controller for my tube synth. I'm planning a few things different than the one shown on this tread. A bar my fingertip slides along that is a big long spst nom open temp switch to trigger a gate signal. Played with left hand. right hand controls additional gate switch,volume,and a mod wheel. Instead of a piano key layout I'm going to use fret lines and dots like a guitar neck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tojpeters



Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Posts: 22
Location: cali (far north)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: double post Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry, i got an error message and thought the first post did not go through
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20615
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 148
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: double post Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tojpeters wrote:
sorry, i got an error message and thought the first post did not go through


Yeah, the mail ... it'll be a while before that gets fixed probably Confused .. posting still works though even when it complains.

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tojpeters wrote:
Thanks for the welcome. I have a lot of arcane tube/organ knowledge to share.... I have a 25 or so module analog synth I built myself, mostly serge/cgs and mfos. my rack is integrated into a hammond L100, i have added a resistor divider network to the lower manual to control the synth. I can use the tonewheel output as another tone source. I have a rhodes piano and a B3, the modular is the final leg in my holy trinity of keyboards. I plan on building quite a large modular. I'm on this thread as I want to build a similar controller for my tube synth. I'm planning a few things different than the one shown on this tread. A bar my fingertip slides along that is a big long spst nom open temp switch to trigger a gate signal. Played with left hand. right hand controls additional gate switch,volume,and a mod wheel. Instead of a piano key layout I'm going to use fret lines and dots like a guitar neck.


Are you left handed then?

Very excited to see how your project turns out. The tube sound will be amazing for this too.

One thing I've found on this direction so important is the physical reference for notes... something for the fingers to feel and land on. Are you considering putting frets that you can feel even a little?

On my Ribbon with pearl references it's nice because I can feel those note points if I want and I can also change the angle of my hand and ignore them and just have a smooth ribbon to glide up and down.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

That being said, a lot of people do well just with a visual or no reference. The Trautonium didn't have any. I guess neither does the cello. So much of the "classical" playability happens just by having anything to physically connect with, as opposed to the Theremin.

Keep us posted on the project. Sounds like an incredible project!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, tojpeters...

The Hammond interfaced Tube Modular sounds just legendary.

It would be GREAT to see some pictures and hear some recording examples!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Infrablue wrote:
On my Ribbon with pearl references it's nice because I can feel those note points if I want and I can also change the angle of my hand and ignore them and just have a smooth ribbon to glide up and down.

I guess this is pretty dumb, but I still don't get the ribbon on the eowave. How big is it, and where is it located relative to your printed keyboard and the pearls? I've looked and looked and haven't been able to find its dimensions anywhere.

Thanks!

Ian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tojpeters



Joined: Feb 04, 2013
Posts: 22
Location: cali (far north)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: not left handed Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm a bass player. I am used to choosing my pitch with my left hand and articulating with my right. I plan some sort of indication tactile marker. Bumps, depressions or 'frets'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Infrablue wrote:
That being said, a lot of people do well just with a visual or no reference. The Trautonium didn't have any. I guess neither does the cello.

I played cello a bit. Cellists tune by the body resonances of the instrument. There is a particular timbre for each note. There is also some involvement with the thickness of the neck. And you are supposed to never look! I'm practicing my current ribbon controller and doing reasonably well with dots marked on a strip above the ribbon. I didn't have so much luck before when I tried a wooded strip with notches (similar idea to your bumps). I guess that with the tactile indicator I had to both look and feel. I'm doing lots of technical exercises to try to develop some technique and get better intonation.

Ian


scale.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  67.33 KB
 Viewed:  88 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

scale.jpg



Last edited by frijitz on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: not left handed Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tojpeters wrote:
I'm a bass player. I am used to choosing my pitch with my left hand and articulating with my right. I plan some sort of indication tactile marker. Bumps, depressions or 'frets'.

String instruments used to be played the other way around. They switched to having the bow in the right hand because it is more difficult to control than the pitch. There is only one parameter for pitch, whereas with a bow you have to control speed, position, angle, pressure and all it takes for the various bouncing techniques.

Ian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
Infrablue wrote:
On my Ribbon with pearl references it's nice because I can feel those note points if I want and I can also change the angle of my hand and ignore them and just have a smooth ribbon to glide up and down.

I guess this is pretty dumb, but I still don't get the ribbon on the eowave. How big is it, and where is it located relative to your printed keyboard and the pearls? I've looked and looked and haven't been able to find its dimensions anywhere.

Thanks!

Ian


Here is the sensor used in the Eowave Ribbon, which is what I modified. I think it's that softpot that is out there and even used with the Doepfer ribbon controller. This image shows the sensor under the Ribbon, but here mounted on something maybe sightly wider than the Ribbon instrument but close.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


On my mod, contact with the pearls doesn't actually touch any sensor. My finger just rests lightly if at all on the pearl and my finger tip presses down in the very center of the keyboard image (which is right where the bottom of the printed little keys is).

The width of the ribbon's printed area is 7/8ths of an inch and the center 3/8ths of the width is were the sensor sits beneath the printed part.

With it like this I'm only getting sensed if I'm nicely right in the center of the width, which turns out was another great reason for the pearls and the printed keys... the key edge image shows me not just where the note generally is, but where the ribbon center, the sensor is. Also the feel of the pearls similarly gives a note reference and a feel of the center.

I do find myself not looking all the time, and it does come down to the ears. Though I have a lot of more practice to do on it really. For sure, the pearls and image turn out to be an aide to get there but intonation comes down to the ear, as you say. Especially since any fixed printing on a ribbon, Martenot or any contiuum is pretty much a well tempered clavicord when it comes to intonation. Each note needs to be adjusted slightly within the key of the music.

Also... I like very small notes widths on my Ribbon, which makes large movements do much more to the pitch. I love this for what it does to vibrato and dives and rises, but it does mean I need to really monitor the pitch more carefully. To contrast this, on my DIY Martenot ring controller I'm having key lengths probably to end up about a half an inch, which is at least double what I use on the Ribbon.

I'm still just playing the Martenot Ring/loop a lot before committing to a key size, just so I can have it just right where it works best for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infrablue



Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 123
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: not left handed Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tojpeters wrote:
I'm a bass player. I am used to choosing my pitch with my left hand and articulating with my right. I plan some sort of indication tactile marker. Bumps, depressions or 'frets'.


Interesting on the bass approach. And understandable. Cool the frets will be tactile... you definitely have this planned out nicely!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 7 of 10 [238 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use