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"Somber Sonnet" - An Era Begins
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redskull



Joined: Aug 16, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:55 am    Post subject: "Somber Sonnet" - An Era Begins Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I created this track over the course of a 5 hour period, quite literally after my audio-monitors gave off this horrible sudden sound and frightened me. It is the first track I ever made under the side-project moniker "Poetry Electrix".

A somewhat emotional song for me, the track was intended to convey how I felt as my feelings of being startled by the aforementioned monitor feedback sound faded away, and calm took back over.

The track is slow @ 120 bpm, and has an almost dream-like appeal to it. You could possibly listen to this whilst driving and fall asleep!

All in all, this is one of my most personally rewarding and beloved tracks to date, and I would love it if someone would remix this one for me. I have made several other versions (a trance remix for example) but none of them hold a candle to this, perhaps my most melodic and emotionally inciteful track in perhaps 5 years. This, I share with you all. Feed back is desperately sought on this track, please.

[I REMOVED THE TRACK SO THAT I COULD UPLOAD ANOTHER ONE]

Last edited by redskull on Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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forficule



Joined: Jun 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, but I don't like this track at all. I think the sounds are artificials and for me it's like commercial music in the 80's. I think this music is obsolete, if I can say that. The track is too long for me and it is very smooth and I don't like this.
But it's just my opinion Very Happy

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egw
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Obsolete? I can't accept that term as a valid criticism of music, unless the artist is trying to be "current".
Most artists here are not trying to be popular, but pursuing their own self expression. If the effort is sincere, then it can't be obsolete.
Of course, it's fine to say that you don't like it (and why).
Sometimes I hear music that sounds "dated" because the instruments or sounds are recognizably from the 80s or whatever. But I don't like it any less because of that. A good beat, a good melody, interesting arrangement, emotion and expressiveness, those things are universal.
A lot of kids think that only music that is new is worth listening to. They are missing so much, but if they are serious about music, they eventually figure that out.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with EGW about the obsolete term, but I when I was much younger I used to feel the same way. I think that's because sometimes we form personal identification with the music that we like. The music personifies a style, a point of view, a way of living, ... an identy. When I was young, the music was changing and I very strongly identified with what was then called the counter culture. Everything else was passe, out-of-style, and obsolete.

I don't feel that way anymore. At some point I suddenly discovered that I liked some music that I didn't like before. The music didn't change, I did. Something in me opened up and as a reward, I got new music that I liked. Now, when I hear something I don't like, I say to myself, "What is it in me that is blocking my enjoyment of this music. There is something going on here that I'm missing." This has helped me grow and appreciate music and life in general much more. When someone says in obvious sincerity, "... perhaps my most melodic and emotionally inciteful track in perhaps 5 years.", then I try to listen with my biggest ears.

Mark, I can hear the somberness in this. It's much more "emotional" than much of your music that I've listened to. I can see what you mean by "an era begins", you are into something different now. I welcome and encourage you to follow your heart into this new direction.

You have been into what I call for lack of a better term dance music - music with a rhymic regular percussion (drum) element. (Please forgive this oversimplification.) Most of this music in the genre is not emotionally expressive, at least for emotions different than those needed to get up and dance, or trance out. Lately, I've had personal contact with other musicians into dance and looping music that are starting to move into more "expressive" directions. It's pretty difficult, but I think the results will be pretty interesting and worthwhile.

Keep it up and keep 'em coming...

thumb up well-done well-done well-done well-done well-done thumb up
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forficule



Joined: Jun 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm sorry if my way of saying is not very good,
but I wanted to say that these sounds were appreciate in the 80's, maybe because people had another way of thinking sounds made by synthesizer, but today there are a lot of sounds less artificial, more natural, than these sounds,
nostalgy is not bad, but we have so much possibilities to make new sounds.

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egw
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I think it is a language thing.
Obsolete really means no longer worthwhile.
I guess you meant "dated" but to me, again, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
I often hear music that is not much more than a collection of interesting sounds (usually generated on a laptop). But music that relies too heavily on "new" sounds to be unique, is the same music that becomes dated very quickly, once those kinds of sounds have come into wider use.
It's great to have the newest sounds, they can be inspiring to the artist, but that inspiration should lead to something of musical value that goes beyond the sounds themselves.
I happen to like the sound of a piano, flute, or violin etc. but they are not particularly new. Sometimes I like to make music with just orchestral or piano sounds, or vintage synths. It forces you to find a unique expression in other ways.
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redskull



Joined: Aug 16, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, I came back to find much more to read in such a short span of time than expected Very Happy

Forficule, I enjoyed your feedback, and as far as the obsolete comment, I can actually sense truth to the statement, when taken literally, as far as how the sounds seem...dusty or attic-storage-laden. I respect that assessment. I also feel you are wrong there, but hey, opinions are what make us interesting. I will keep your thought in mind as I make more of these kinds of songs in the future. I thank you for your candor, maze though it seemed upon first glance.

egw, the comments you made about youngsters and popular music trends has been something of a roundtable discussion with me and my former bandmates for some time now. It saddens me somewhat, but that is the nature of the now: "bigger, faster, more, more and more". I simply refuse to jump onto the hotness Razz

Mosc, that was a very articulated response. You always seem to instill a sense of respect from me, and make me want to continue this journey I am on. I value your epxerience, and I am appreciative of the encouraging words. As far as oversimplification, no, you were right on the money there, and I guess the dance obsession of mine was akin to what egw shared about kids being off the wall and not totally serious about music. I got serious about music a long time ago, but sometimes, it is easy to forget to remain grounded in the fundamentals, and the overall passion gets diluted. Thank you Smile
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paul e.



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

excellent track

nice warmth..languid...persausive

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redskull



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you! Smile
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Abaddon



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't care what they say, I like it. You take critism(sp?) well, too! Smile
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nightowl



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:36 am    Post subject: song Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's a really good song, the precussion gives the song alot more feeling. I like it. Well done.
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Dovdimus Prime



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Duplicate post - sorry.
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Dovdimus Prime



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Couple of things to comment on here.

First up:

mosc wrote:
Most of this music in the genre is not emotionally expressive, at least for emotions different than those needed to get up and dance, or trance out.


Mosc, this is an extraordinarily naive and generalised thing for someone to say who, by his own admission, is not a fan of 'dance music'. It's also complete crap. I am surprised you can't see that there will always be people, working in any genre of music, who will wish to express themselves emotionally through it. I read through this thread and when I saw your post I thought to myself 'this doesn't sound like Mosc at all'.

Second up, Red, this is fantastic. I'm familiar with your more dance oriented stuff, which is also good, but it's a pleasant surprise to hear this. The synths are beautiful - really plaintive - and the tunes match too. Well done mate. Buy yourself a beer from me!

Cheers

Dovder

Wow! This is really good! Kind of reminds me of Sven Vath's 'Esperanca'. Check it out if you don't know it.

Oh, incidentally - big respect to Forficule for speaking his mind!

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dovdimus Prime wrote:
Mosc, this is an extraordinarily naive and generalised thing for someone to say who, by his own admission, is not a fan of 'dance music'. It's also complete crap. I am surprised you can't see that there will always be people, working in any genre of music, who will wish to express themselves emotionally through it. I read through this thread and when I saw your post I thought to myself 'this doesn't sound like Mosc at all'.


Hee hee... Here I am saying how open minded I am, and you say I'm over gerneralizing and naive. Reread what I wrote. I didn't say there weren't people who work in the dance genra who were not expressing themselves emotionally through it. I would think most are doing the music to express themselves. I did say that dance music itself is not emotionally expressive. I'd like to rephase it though, I haven't found dance music, music with a rhymic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos, very small dynamic range, etc, to be emotionally expressive.

This is not a negative statement. Much of Bach's music was not emotionally expressive. The two and three part inventions are amoung my favorite pieces, as are the Preludes and Fugues. They are great but not...

Is that something less the "complete crap'?
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Dovdimus Prime



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mr Moscovitz

Thank you for your reply. I have reread your post, and found it to contain the same statements I noticed the first time. I never suggested that you had said noone in dance music was interested in expressing themselves emotionally. I inferred it from the fact you said that music in the genre is not emotionally expressive. My assumption is that if people in a genre want to express themselves emotionally, then some of the music in that genre will be emotionally expressive.

I'm slightly taken back that I was offended by your post. I've loved and listened to what you describe as dance music (quite accurately) for well over 10 years and so I guess I'm a bit defensive. It's also kind of interesting that as I type this I'm also arguing with my girlfriend. Soak up my frustrations Mosc!

I don't really care about Bach. I don't like his music that much. To extend the discussion, what music do you think IS emotionally expressive?

Cheers

Dovder

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I liked this one.. until the piano thingie kicks in. I am not saying this song is bad because of the piano.. I have heard related music with pretty much the same piano riff.. but this is kinda too simple for me.. I donĀ“t mean simple as in bad.. the way I hear this .. is the piano pretty much stops what is going on. When I enjoy music like this I kinda jam along.. in my mind... but the jamming stopped when the piano kicked in. Instead you could bring in some drama and passion! BABE! Go.. pling-karra-kerplaf-kaboom-whippowhalterrapling-koko instead.. something.. Very Happy
Anyway.. I react the same way when "major radio stars" do the same.. so.. ignore me.. please.. Very Happy

Keep it up Skully!

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dovdimus Prime wrote:
I don't really care about Bach. I don't like his music that much. To extend the discussion, what music do you think IS emotionally expressive?

Well, almost all of the Romantic Era music. I think Elektro80's stuff is emotionally expressive. Some of my music is too, the most emotional is not online, unfortunately, but I think the second movement of my Flute Concerto is emotionally expressive. I'm not saying emotionally expressive is good or bad. It can be either; a lot gets schmaltzy, if you know what I mean.

Movie music is very evocative. Music can evoke anger, rage, pain, lamentations, grief, sorry, joy, happiness, love, courage, introspection, loneliness, patriotism. all kinds of emotions. Dance music, as we know it today is limited to certain tempos, timbres, tempos, has limited dynamics, it almost never changes keys. So how can it express these emotions, or even allude to them?

I think Red Skull understood what I was saying. It wasn't meant as a put down, just an observation.

As for not caring for Bach - that's OK with me. I know a few other musicians that feel the same way. I put it to you this way though: If you open yourself up to there being something great in the music of Bach that you have been missing, you might someday discover something very wonderful and worthwhile that will move and inspire you. This has nothing to do with emotional expressiveness though.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
dance music, music with a rhymic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos, very small dynamic range, etc, to be emotionally expressive.


I guess there is one distinction to be made here.. and that is that this is a computation that does not quite resolve both ways.

The basic statement can probably be more true than untrue. I tend to agree in general. But on the other hand.. " music with a rhytmic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos, very small dynamic range, etc" does not have to equal dance music.

There is also a lot of amazing music that conforms to "music with a rhytmic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos" but then goes somewhere else..

Howard.. check out that CAN DVD material I sent you.. check the documentary first.

Emotion itself is not that a big thing. i often think of a lot of music written for movies to be first of all a mindfuck.. then later on it kickstarts some emotion. However, music for films is a difficult area to discuss intelligently. Too much is in fact connceted to how the brain searches for meaning and correlating content. It is often said the music for films releases emotion.. and I can understand that idea.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
music with a rhytmic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos, very small dynamic range, etc" does not have to equal dance music.

There is also a lot of amazing music that conforms to "music with a rhytmic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos" but then goes somewhere else..


Quite right. I can think of the chain gang that started the movie My Brother's Keeper (something like that - George Cluny - that one) There was a regular unchanging percussive element in that - the sound of the hammers. That was very moving. Not dance music, though...
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redskull



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I appreciate all the comments guys Very Happy
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
music with a rhytmic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos, very small dynamic range, etc" does not have to equal dance music.

There is also a lot of amazing music that conforms to "music with a rhytmic regular percussion (drum) element, unchanging tempos" but then goes somewhere else..


Quite right. I can think of the chain gang that started the movie My Brother's Keeper (something like that - George Cluny - that one) There was a regular unchanging percussive element in that - the sound of the hammers. That was very moving. Not dance music, though...


It's the Coen Brothers classic "O Brother Where Art Thou" - the song is Po' Lazarus. Luv it meself!

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